{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/q52f768c98/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Nekita Thomas: The Hood Was My First Design School"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/548/original/OHA_Mark_2.0_Transp._copy.png?1752767076","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Narrator(s)"]},"value":{"en":["Nekita Thomas (Full Name)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Narrator Pronouns"]},"value":{"en":["she/her"]}},{"label":{"en":["Interview Summary"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eIn this Oral history Nekita Thomas discusses being a resident of Dearborn Homes. She tells stories about the people who taught her about Chicago Culture, introduced her to the arts and set her on her path. She talks about the arts and the built environment, paying homage to two projects in particular: Her senior Graphic Design capstone project at the University of Illinois, and the Logo for Place, Space Werkz. At the time of this interview, Thomas is an associate professor of Design at the  University of Illinois.\u003c/p\u003e (general)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Public Housing Affiliation"]},"value":{"en":["Former Resident"]}},{"label":{"en":["Public Housing Locations"]},"value":{"en":["Dearborn Homes"]}},{"label":{"en":["Keywords"]},"value":{"en":["Visual Design","Public Art"]}},{"label":{"en":["Themes"]},"value":{"en":["Architecture/Design","Mentorship and/or Role Models","Personal Responsibility","Personal Growth","Housing and/or Public Policy","Racism and White Supremacy","Race and/or Racial Identity","Identity","Dance","Environmental Justice","Empowerment","Education","Community (Overarching)","Plan for Transformation"]}},{"label":{"en":["Content Warnings"]},"value":{"en":["Gangs","Death","Environmental Racism","Demolition and/or Displacement"]}},{"label":{"en":["Decades Covered"]},"value":{"en":["1990s","2000s","2010s","2020s"]}},{"label":{"en":["Life Dates"]},"value":{"en":["1989 (Birth)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Race, Ethnicity"]},"value":{"en":["Black, African American, and/or African Diasporic"]}},{"label":{"en":["Interview materials available"]},"value":{"en":["Audio—.wav","Audio—other","Transcript—rough PDF","Finding aid—polished PDF","Index (in Aviary time-sync)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Oral Historians"]},"value":{"en":["Shadawn \"Boobie\" Battle (Interviewer)","jellystone robinson (Interviewer)","jellystone robinson (Post-Production by)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Interview Date"]},"value":{"en":["2025-06-20 (Recorded)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Method of Interview"]},"value":{"en":["in-person"]}},{"label":{"en":["Recording Location(s)"]},"value":{"en":["National Public Housing Museum, Demand the Impossible Exhibit (Both)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Audio Quality Notes"]},"value":{"en":["Good"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["english (primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eEach oral history interview is considered to be co-created, ‘joint work’ among the oral historian, narrator, and, in this case, the National Public Housing Museum.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eNPHM manages the components of copyright (reproduction, distribution, adaption, performance, and display) using Creative Commons Licenses. Most interviews are shared with Attribution and Non-Commercial 4.0 International licenses (CC BY-NC 4.0 Deed), meaning that they can be reproduced, distributed, performed, and displayed for the general public IF the user:\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eCredits the co-creators (Attribution), and\u003cbr\u003eDoes not make money from the usage (Non-Commercial). \u003cbr\u003eNarrators also have the option to apply a No-Derivatives License to their interview(s), meaning that the public is forbidden from adapting the work. These works are published under an Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 4.0 International license (CC BY-NC-ND 4.0 Deed).\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003ePlease contact the NPHM Oral History Programs Manager if you are interested in downloading a copy of any of the interview materials (audio file, transcript, or finding aid contents).\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eNote that the final decision about whether to share downloadable copies and whether to allow usage remains with the narrator.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e \u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Preferred Citation"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eWhen using an interview from the NPHM Oral History Archive, use the narrator's full name the first time you reference them. Use the narrator's \"Refer to As\" name in additional mentions of their name. \u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003ePlease use the following formatting when citing the interview in academic settings:\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eBibliography Example\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003ePegues, Janetta Sue. Interviewed by Francesco De Salvatore. National Public Housing Museum Oral History Archive, [insert URL], recorded June 18, 2018, accessed June 2, 2024: pp. 10-15.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eBibliography Format\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e[NarratorFullName in Last, First Middle order]. Interviewed by [InterviewerFullName in First Middle Last Order]. National Public Housing Museum Oral History Archive, [insert URL], recorded [write out full date of interview], accessed [write out full date of most recent access]: pp. [pages of transcript cited]. \u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eFootnote Example\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eJanetta Sue Pegues, interviewed by Francesco De Salvatore, National Public Housing Museum Oral History Archive, [insert URL], recorded June 18, 2018, accessed June 2, 2024: pp. 10-15. \u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eFootnote Format\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e[NarratorFullName in First Middle Last Order], interviewed by [InterviewerFullName in First Middle Last Order] National Public Housing Museum Oral History Archive, [insert URL], recorded [write out full date of interview], accessed [write out full date of most recent access]: pp. [pages of transcript cited].\u003c/p\u003e"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eIn this Oral history Nekita Thomas discusses being a resident of Dearborn Homes. She tells stories about the people who taught her about Chicago Culture, introduced her to the arts and set her on her path. She talks about the arts and the built environment, paying homage to two projects in particular: Her senior Graphic Design capstone project at the University of Illinois, and the Logo for Place, Space Werkz. At the time of this interview, Thomas is an associate professor of Design at the \u0026nbsp;University of Illinois.\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eEach oral history interview is considered to be co-created, \u0026lsquo;joint work\u0026rsquo; among the oral historian, narrator, and, in this case, the National Public Housing Museum.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eNPHM manages the components of copyright (reproduction, distribution, adaption, performance, and display) using Creative Commons Licenses. Most interviews are shared with Attribution and Non-Commercial 4.0 International licenses (CC BY-NC 4.0 Deed), meaning that they can be reproduced, distributed, performed, and displayed for the general public IF the user:\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eCredits the co-creators (Attribution), and\u003cbr /\u003eDoes not make money from the usage (Non-Commercial).\u0026nbsp;\u003cbr /\u003eNarrators also have the option to apply a No-Derivatives License to their interview(s), meaning that the public is forbidden from adapting the work. These works are published under an Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 4.0 International license (CC BY-NC-ND 4.0 Deed).\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003ePlease contact the NPHM Oral History Programs Manager if you are interested in downloading a copy of any of the interview materials (audio file, transcript, or finding aid contents).\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003eNote that the final decision about whether to share downloadable copies and whether to allow usage remains with the narrator.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["National Public Housing Museum"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["National Public Housing Museum"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/548/original/OHA_Mark_2.0_Transp._copy.png?1752767076","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/309/433/small/Untitled_design_%288%29.png?1781194143","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - Thomas__Niketa_Interview_1_Combined_Tracks_2025.06.20.WAV"]},"duration":4976.213,"width":640,"height":40,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/309/433/small/Untitled_design_%288%29.png?1781194143","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-nphm.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/309/433/original/Thomas__Niketa_Interview_1_Combined_Tracks_2025.06.20.WAV?1779744688","type":"Audio","format":"audio/wav","duration":4976.213,"width":640,"height":40},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Nekita Thomas Interview Transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Oral History Interview with \n\nNekita Thomas\n\n\n\n\n\nOral History Archive\n\nThe National Public Housing Museum\n\nConducted June 2025, Processed December 2025 - February 2026\n\n\n\n\n\nThe following oral history is the result of a recorded interview with Nekita Thomas, conducted by Dr. ShaDawn “Boobie” Battle. This interview was conducted in one session on June 20th, 2025, and is part of The National Public Housing Museum’s Oral History Archive. Readers should keep in mind they are reading a transcript of the spoken word, rather than written prose and are encouraged to refer directly to the original audio when possible. The following transcript was created Otter.ai and edited and stylized by jellystone robinson. The narrator is in the process of reviewing this transcript. Readers should also bear in mind that the beliefs, opinions, and/or any offensive language expressed by the Narrator do not represent The National Public Housing Museum","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=0.0,0.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dr. Shadawn “Boobie” Battle: Okay, all right.  thanks for being here today.  Oh, thats you?\n\n jellystone robinson: Yeah. \n\nBattle: My bad. \n\nrobinson: It's okay you getting right into it, I won't take too long.\n\nOkay, so before we begin, do we have your consent to record the interview?\n\nNekita Thomas: Yes, okay. \n\nrobinson: Perfect. my name is jellystone robinson. I use he and they pronouns.  I'm 26. Today is June 20. - I'm finna say 1998 chile! - Today is June 20, 2025 and we are recording at the National Public Housing Museum on zoom from the Demand the Impossible exhibit. \n\nI'm with the National Public Housing Museum's oral history corps, interviewing Nekita about her life history. Um, Please introduce yourself. OH! Interviewing Nekita with ShaDawn about Nekita’s life history, and y'all can just use your name, your pronouns, if you want, to your age, where you're from, and just your connection to public housing, really, anything you want to say can be your introduction. Yes. And then after that, I'll do the preface, and then I'll give it to y'all.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=0.0,64.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Battle: Okay, okay, I’m ShaDawn Battle. I am also here at the National Public Housing Museum. I am 39, I'm an assistant professor of Critical Ethnic and Black Studies. I'm also the former Artist as Instigator resident for the National Public Housing Museum.\n\nThomas: Hi, I'm Nekita Thomas, 36 years old, former public housing resident of Dearborn Homes, currently an associate professor of Design at the University of Illinois. She/her pronouns.\n\nrobinson: Okay period \n\nThomas: Low end forever, east side. \n\nrobinson: ShaDawn did you have something to add? \n\nBattle: Wondering if I said my pronouns, I can't remember, but she/her pronouns,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=64.0,121.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"robinson:  So just a preface for y'all, both of y'all, you can say as much or as little as you want to say. You can also pass on any question. You can also just stop the interview at any time for any reason. Please ask for clarification on any questions you don't understand, but also interpret the questions in the manner that you do, because that's also helpful to us. There are no wrong answers. And like I said, even though the interview is focused on you, it is a conversation. So anything that's asked, you can also ask back in conversation that way. \n\nThomas: Great. \n\nrobinson: That's all I have. Y'all can go.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=121.0,152.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Battle: Okay, so how you feeling today?\n\nThomas: I'm feeling good. I'm in the building with a star, \n\nBattle: Naw naw naw not me. \n\nOkay, so I'm just gonna jump right in. Right? So what years -  could you repeat What years you lived in the Dearborn?\n\nThomas: Yeah. So I was born in 1989 and I was brought home to the Dearborns from Brown hospital, and so I lived there from 1989 all the way up until about 2003 and then I moved to a scatter site on the east side of Chicago, \n\nBattle: okay, okay, and so this is situated squarely within the time of the Plan for Transformation. \n\nDescribe your time living in the Dearborn home.\n\nThomas: I have a lot of beautiful memories from living in Dearborn. I primarily stayed in one building the entire time that I was there, 2701 it was interesting, because the way that the dearborns is kind of positioned, you have four buildings that fall in the 2700 range, and that is separated by a field house, and like a really big field, where you play softball and things like that, from the 2900 block, 2800 block of Dearborn homes, which I think is really interesting. And so we were a part of a really big community, but the four buildings that were at 27th street were pretty intimate, like everyone got a chance to know each other really well, versus sort of having to know the entirety of all of Dearborn homes. Right? My family also are from Louisiana. This is my mom's side, who primarily stayed in Dearborn homes. And when they were younger, they actually lost a lot of their photos from when they were kids, and that became really important for my family to, like, document our history through photos. So I have photos from the time that I was in the hospital until now, and so I can see, like, everything that was happening around me. And that kind of gets tricky, because people ask me to explain my relationship to different homes, and I think about that, and I was like, Why does it feel like I can remember way more stuff than I should? And it's really because those pictures are filling in a lot of different memories. So I grew up in a house with a pretty much like a matriarch of my entire family. My grandmother was present. She also lived in different homes, as well as my other aunts and uncles, one of which lived in Hilliard homes, so it was like down the way. Then later on, my auntie lived in Ickies but primarily we always situated in different homes. But I think something that's really interesting is like my mom being a matriarch. Everyone would gather at my house, and so like, Christmas, Thanksgiving, Easter, I mean, they celebrating even St Patrick's Day. We got some type of something cooking. But she's also, like, really big into music. So we call her DJ Dark because we were house - we the house party too. So I have a lot of fond memories of just different homes and connecting with people through my family being really big cooks and people in the neighborhood move my family from being big cooks and also like the lady who plays blasting music all times of the day, no shade. So it was really great memories, sort of growing up that really started in my home, but allowed me to connect with people in the neighborhood.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=152.0,362.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Battle: Cool, Thank you. Thank you. And I'm gonna circle back later to the to your home being like the sort of the site of the house parties, but so tell me about your immediate and like closest community, right in public housing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=362.0,381.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thomas: my most immediate and closest community. So if we're talking about historically, if I'm like looking back at that moment, something that was so important to Dearborn homes was Daniele Hale Williams Elementary School, which is, it's no longer called Daniel Hale Williams, but this school set, literally, there was a parking lot between my building and Daniel L Williams. Really huge school, very beautiful, architecturally like when I look back at that building, it was like, so grand! But all of the kids, no matter if you were on the , we all went to that one school, and we were super close. And the school, because it's named after Daniel Williams, the first black open heart surgeon, they focused on teaching us our history. So we're singing the American, you know, Anthem, but we're also singing right after that Lift Every Voice and Sing, which is, it's fun. I mean, I have memories of friends like, totally putting they all Life every Voice (In sing song voice). I mean, it was crazy. Some people got, like, interested in that, like black history plays. It was always something. So I will say that my closest sort of, like bonds - fictive kinship, sort of bonds -  started at that school, like those were my people. And also it's not surprising to me, like being in a creative field right now in my life, all of the friends that I had during that time were creative in some respect, whether that was fashion, whether that was dance, whether that was making art and things like that, word play. It was like, I look at where they are right now. And I was like, of course, you were my friend, like you were the artsy kid in the hood. Like, how didn’t we see that? Like, we didn't put that together. So I hope that answers the question.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=381.0,498.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Battle: yeah, no, that's interesting, right? Because, like sometimes we think of schools as connected to the state, right and as an apparatus of the state, but you are thinking of school as a community, right, as as a community that bred you and help you become who you amounted to today as well and your other peers. Why do you think that school turned all of y'all into like artists in some capacity?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=498.0,527.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thomas: Oh, my God, that's a really great question. I think it was really because of how activated they were in teaching us about black history beyond like, this is, this is what slavery is. It was a lot of like, this is what joy looks like. Let's go on these field trips to, like, start like, it was interesting. The field trips that they even took us on, like, to the shed aquarium. Of course, everyone sort of like, goes there. But we were also going to, like urban gardens at that time when we were in school, I remember going to urban gardens that was like a yearly field trip for our science courses, but it was also a lot of just creative expression. So we had our cheerleading teams. I was on cheerleading team. We had like these little fun days that would happen every year before we got out in summer. And I have some very particular stories about that. Like, bi g Now\u0026Later jars and like, guess how big Now\u0026Laters in a big, big container, you would pin them and, like, take them home. But it was also the amount of plays that they had. We had a play, I kid you not, like, every three months at that. School. So it wasn't just like a Black History Month play. It was the Christmas play. We did a Easter play. We did all types of plays. And I think that maybe sort of activated something in us to be imagining a role in that way. I think that plays a really big part. And someone would do the costumes, someone knew the background, someone would do the- it was a hands on production.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=527.0,623.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Battle: Nice, nice. What if you can think back, like, were you observing, did you then, or do you now, observe the ways in which, like, the Dearborn, like changed as a community over time, like during the time that you lived there?\n\nThomas: I really can only do that in retrospect, like, it's crazy. I think I heard someone say, like, you live like backwards, in a sense, because you - you're in emotion - like you're in a state of becoming but she never truly realized what it - what it was. But I can say that the only thing that really felt like it that changed was the people growing up. It was other- this is a really good question, because I'm really only thinking about seeing certain people mature over time, seeing people sort of get interested in doing things that was outside of our neighborhood and coming back and adding back to our neighborhood. But infrastructurally, a lot had changed. My pretty much, all of my family were social workers for So my mom worked for the summer housing the Summer Food Program, which also set at the same site as the public housing museum. And so she was in different communities. Altgeld, Wentworth stateway, and that way she got a chance to know people from all across public housing, which was really interesting. So it was no boundaries. And I also got a chance to see how other places were infrastructurally like I went inside a lot of people's houses when I was younger like so I knew what Stateway looked like, I knew what Cabrini looked like. I knew what The Wells looked like. I knew what all of those places look like. And what's to me interesting about Dearborn is that it's also one of the first public housing developments that had an elevator. And I was just like, oh, this is really, this is really interesting to think about that elevator as like a contemporary thing. But because my family were social workers, my mom worked for, again, Summer Food Program. My grandmother worked for CADRE at the time, it was kind of like, you can think of it like there, but it's all it's also just like trying to keep kids off the - off the street, so D.A.R.E try to integrate into cadre, or whatever, failed attempt we know about D.A.R.E. But cadre was like taking kids after school over the summers, teaching them how to play chess, taking us to medieval times, like doing all types of stuff. But the other thing that I had noticed is that in my building, there used to be - this program didn't last really long, but I remember everyone used to have to have an ID to get into the building, and you will have to take pictures, like even kids will have to take pictures. And so it's kind of not trying to get too deep, but it kind of feels like one of those things that's representative of stuff that you see in the Holocaust with like badges and like symbols and stuff to get in a building, but the whole purpose was that you could not enter this building if you didn't stay there, because that was a way for them to kind of keep down some of the Riff Raff, or whatever you want to call it, so you couldn't enter somebody else's building. That's crazy, right? So we, we saw this. This thing happened the first floor of my building where it was just the open, sort of like space, where you can come out, come in and out to now there's a big, a big booth, which had to watch my language, but like a big booth in the middle of the entryway with like doors that you have to get buzzed into after you show your ID. So that failed. Was a security guard there too to check, that failed, it got demolished. And then it's like big holes in the top of the ceiling where the booth used to be. Took a really long time for them to repair so I'm just thinking about those types of moments where I've infrastructurally seen things like sort of change in my neighborhood.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=623.0,869.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Battle: What was the state of the elevators\n\n\n\nThomas: always broken. They they had those really big, heavy doors that you never, definitely don't want to get caught in, even though it had like a sensor, like a buzzer, on them. Um, unfortunately, like, there was, like a cleaning program, but they weren't the cleanliest right? Some floors you would go to, you have to, like, pull it back,  To get off - the doubles sort of pulled back to get off. And my aunt still stays in public housing. Right now, she stays in Dearborns, and it's not that much of a difference. And I was there during a time where they tried to revitalize it as well. So they put in a new park. I was there - with, like, some soft, like cushion floors, like nice park floors. They also repainted the entirety of all of the interiors of the buildings and the stairwells and the handrails. They redid the elevator, and that's what I'm getting back to. And the elevators are similar to the same elevators that they have today! Legit, I literally just left my aunt's house, like, before I came here, and I like, broken people use it as the bathroom sometimes - it's a lot going on in those elevators. But it created some endearing moments too. I don't want to go too deep, but it created some endearing moments. I remember, like and I told somebody this, that when I would be outside and it would get too late, I have a brother. He's in his 40s, 42 and if my brother was not - when he was ready to go in, oftentimes I would have to go in too. And if he was already in and everybody was already upstairs. My mom was like, if you don't holler up to this window and somebody comes down to get you, I'mma get you- you gone get in trouble, because she doesn't want me to come up on the elevators alone, or come up on the - in the stairwell alone. It just wasn't a alone thing. So now we have this sort of like understanding between each other, like, you better holler up when you ready to come upstairs. That was interesting. I can never forget that.\n\nBattle: before we transition into like the other part of the conversation. I also want to know like, your memory of like, the cultural and political like aspect of community, right? Like, what was like? What was gang life like? Right? So people on the outside have their own understanding of gang life and in public housing, but when you're living there, what was that like?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=869.0,1042.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thomas: I think living there,it's so confusing when you grow up around people who you've been in school with, and so you have a certain understanding about them. So now they like in a gang, but you also know them in a different type of intimate way, where it begins to it begins to be this really interesting, like Twilight space, where you like, I know you in the gang, but I know you also bro. And so it's kind of like a love that you have for them and like understanding that you have for them. But I think it would be a total lie to say that as a kid, I wasn't scared of like gang wars, right? And I started off by talking about the fact that the Dearborns in itself, four buildings against the other buildings, which were a lot more buildings than four buildings. I think it was eight buildings that's on the like 28/29th side of Dearborn homes, both different gangs. And only thing that separated us was this field house in the middle, which got redesigned recently, and it looks beautiful! It looks, I don't even know, like whoever the architect was, shout out to them. It's gorgeous, but it used to be a small field house that everyone would have to like. It was like the peace place, like no violence happens here, because we also know that all our kids go to the same space together. So it was scary growing up, it was confusing, but you learn how to “read the room”, very well. Like, I know when it's time to go in the house, I know when I hear voices that, you know, it's like, oh, that's getting heated or something over there. But also at the at the flip of it too, there were really interesting things that were happening. Like, I remember that all the folks who were on our end of Dearborn homes, they would throw, like, a summer barbecue and also a fireworks show. And so those were homies. I was, I love that they was getting money, like, had all the biggest fireworks, and now the kids got Roman capitals, and we eating burgers and all the other stuff that we eat. I was like, money! Yes! Like it’s a certain love - but yeah, it wasn't cool, sort of like growing up and knowing when, like, when there was, like, some serious gang activity going on between legit 27 versus 29th that's crazy. And all the kids go to the same field house andgo to the same school. \n\nBattle: So was the gang life building affiliated-  like this gang,-  so this building is affiliated with this particular gang?\n\nThomas: Mhmm \n\nBattle: Okay \n\nThomas: Yea, GDs versus BDs, yeah. And it was, it was building affiliated. So the four buildings that were on 27, one gang, and eight buildings that was on 28/29th, they were all the same. Yup. \n\nBattle:Okay, and I'm not sure if we caught this, but what was the exact address of the Dearborn?\n\nThomas: So, where I stayed? The building that I stayed was 2701 South Dearborn. Okay, so it's State Street, and then the it's interesting, State Street and then Dearborn. So a lot of people think like state-federal, but it's also Dearborn, where I'm at. So that's really interesting, \n\nBattle: The field house, right? So what are some things that took place in the field house for it to be like a, you know, Switzerland?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=1042.0,1251.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thomas: That’s a really great comparison, um -  the field house, that word still trips me out, like it lives in a back pocket somewhere, like in relation to like slavery. But the field house was pretty much a sports arena for us. They had everything that you would need, the softball gear, the basketballs that you can like, take out, you know, rent out. They had a beautiful foosball table that we just went crazy over when they got that, like it shifted from just like basketball, soccer ball, softball stuff, and then when they got a foosball and tennis ball table, that changed the game. I remember when it happened, because it was like a long sign up sheet for you to be able to play on this, this table, and we created a whole tournament out of foosball attendance. It's like the hood hero. It's like when the pandemic happened and people did the crate challenge, like, “if you can make it over there, you the hood hero!” At that moment, it was that foosball and that tennis ball table, but it also had sprinklers at the back. So in the summer we would go, you know, that was our aqua center, if you wanna say.  So yeah, it was, it was kind of cool. I loved it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=1251.0,1330.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Battle: Speaking of crates, right? So can you talk about your relationship to Chicago's like, artistic and dance and music culture, yeah? And then we'll talk about how your relationship to that culture has been shaped by public housing. \n\nCUT","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=1330.0,1344.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"-","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=1344.0,1373.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"!!!!","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=1373.0,1374.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thomas: okay. So it all honestly starts at public housing, and it starts with my family, honestly being like, having this semi like passport across all of the neighborhoods, and what their jobs were. Their jobs were to put arts and creativity in front of kids in the hood. So naturally, I was like that kid who was going along on the site visits to see the places that they wanted to take kids and behind the planning of certain community events and functions and stuff. But particularly, I want to shout out somebody who is so dear to me, one of my really good friends since I was a little, Jeremy Walton, who's there and stayed in my building. His nickname is Nuke. And what was really great is that he was like the dancer. Like, if we had to put a hood against another hood, like, get your top dancer. It was him. And his mom was also like a house party mom, too. Our whole building, like, has some house party moms, which is so interesting to me, but they stayed on the first floor, and so, like, they would have all the Juke parties, they would, you know, be dancing. He started a dance team, I was on a dance team with them. Like that was super duper fun to do. And he was also, like, multi talented, like, basketball was his thing as well, and so I don't know if anyone remembers, like, the basketball tournaments against, like the hoods, but I remember he would like be our star basketball player, and then he would hype us up, literally, like dancing at the halfway point through the games and like, foot working and doing all of his things. And so it was really great to kind of like sharing that and to like know him intimately. Every building sort of had, like dance teams at one point in time. So, you know, it's like buildings versus buildings dancing a 27 versus 29th thing. But also, with my mom, she worked heavily at ABLA And a part of working with ABLA in the summer, in the Summer Food Program is that they do fun days. And so fun days were these, like really big events where they would have free food for everybody, but entertainment, like Michael Jackson impersonator would come and he would like do his thing. The kids would sign up, and we would all like, sign up to do, like, dance battles and stuff like that, and they would like win prizes and things like that. And so to me that like orchestration of like fun days, and growing up around people who are multi talented, like basketball and dancing, or their parents are all interested in music, and we like who mama got the newest song on her new mix tape that we all getting off of 35th like, because we all know that same man and like, you know what I mean, I thought that that was really interesting.\n\nBut I think that was one of my first introductions to the artists through, like, shopping around for venues and events and things to take kids to through my grandmother being at CADRE and my mom being at summer food. So that's how I got actually exposed to the arts. \n\nThey had a take your kids to work day for Chicago Public Housing where my mom worked. I didn't even understand the real concept of Take your kids to work day until I was older, because I get it that it's like, Take Your Child to Work, was take your kids to work day for public housing wasn't take your kids to work, it was take all the kids that you know to the job. So it was kind of like a field trip day. So your parent didn't even have to be like present, and we was going to places like they were. It's interesting how, like, these institutions work, but they were going to places like the House of Blues, and we were, I think at the time, the House of Blues was up for like, a really big award in the in their kitchen, because they were, like, doing some game change and stuff culinary- in the culinary arts. We got a chance to tour the backstage of the House of Blues, learn about lighting, learn about like, how they get gigs. We went into the kitchen. We was stirring up pots. It was in the newspaper. So the Sun Times has like this newspaper of us like in this kitchen. But the other thing, because you can actually choose your adventure that you wanted to do for taking kids to work day, I chose to go to the Museum of Contemporary Art, and that was the first time that I got a chance to see, like, the behind the scenes of an art museum and the type of art that I was like, “oh, this is cool.” I didn't know that was contemporary art, but I was like, oh, that's graffiti, and it's on y'all walls. Oh, that's dope. “Oh, and then we get to do a workshop, and I need to do my own graffiti, and y'all give me spray paint? That's dope.” So it was, it was really through those programs that I was introduced to, like the arts creativity to dance too.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=1374.0,1678.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Battle: Yeah, right. And your family when we and I want to hear more about, like, where footwork came in too. Like, like, your introduction to footwork, let's say I definitely-  I should add that as a question, like, yeah, what was your introduction to footwork during this time?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=1678.0,1694.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thomas: Yeah, my introduction to footwork was legit through Jeremy, my friend. I mean, my my brother also dated his bigger sister too. So it was kind of like my brother, and that's why I like, feel like, Oh my God. Like, this is my homie. But it was through him. And every hood needs like - you need something to rep your hood. Everyone was like, Okay, this is the building that I stay in: I stay at 01,. I stay in 41. I stay at 40. You know what I mean? The abbreviations of 2701, 27 you know - 20 all that - So you repping in that way, like you rep Low End, rep, east side, right, West Side, South Side is just another way to rep. But I think dancing and basketball were what put us like at a place where people knew the Dearborns, because they would say, “oh, that kid that like from the Dearborns who play basketball, that kid that dance is from the Dearborns.” So that was my first introduction. And of course, like, if your friends doing it at that time, we didn;t have phones. We ain’t have none of that type of stuff. I'm still on that cusp between, like, you know what I mean, use your house phone with a long cord, and then, you know, moving into like, technology, you know, being on your hip and stuff. And so it wasn't much for us to do. So if my friends dancing and they playing basketball, I'm dancing and playing basketball with my friends. And that was the real introduction. It's like being known during those summer times for, like, dancing, kids being in the Bud Billiken, someone, knowing who you are, not just from the building that you grew up with - Grew up in, 01, 20 whatever. - but like, oh yeah that kid from from there, like, oh yeah, they got a little dance group, they do that too.” yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=1694.0,1804.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Battle: Did you realize that this is an art form that is different from art forms in other cities? How was Chicago footwork itself special?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=1804.0,1814.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thomas: Yeah, I felt like it was special. As a shorty growing up, I never truly - I've always been a very hyper local person. It's something really that keeps me grounded to think about what's immediately around me, and it feels really nice to me, because then it feels like I have some agency over what I'm allowed to do, or can do, whose life I can change, what joy I can bring, you know, who - how I'm connected to people. And so at the time, I knew it was something special. I knew it had to be something in the water about Chicago footwork. But when I got older and I noticed that there were dance styles in like Detroit and Jersey that were moving at a quick pace in the same way that we do, but I also was looking at it like, y'all doing it all wrong, like - it's like, I actually don't like it, it's kind of like when you hear people from the DMV, like the way they pronounce the “OO” and the “YEW” and I'm like, You saying that wrong? Like, what type of accent is that? But shout out to your side of town, like, it's cool. But no, I didn't have a very good understanding that this art form was like game changing in the way that it is right now, I'm just happy that I was a part of it. Like to witness it in one of his phases at least.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=1814.0,1913.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"robinson: You brought up, we've been talking about 27 versus 29 a lot. And one thing you brought up is, like, dance crews. Like it was dance cruise, 27 dance crews 27 dance crews 29 they competing each other. I wonder if at all that intersected with also the fact that it was two separate games, like, did that influence that relationship at all?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=1913.0,1938.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thomas: I think that's a good question. I wouldn't say that that's a long stretch, because - you spending most of your time, especially in times where it was like gang wars, you're spending your time with those same groups of people. So whoever your side is around, you know what I mean, you build those affiliations and those connections, and you know, vice versa for the people who are on the side, but I think that's a really interesting connection that you just made. \n\nrobinson: Do you feel like it helped? That like dance was a part of that relationship?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=1938.0,1973.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thomas: I think it did. And I also think that this is why adults need community, like ongoing programs or something - infrastructure that kind of like keeps them in community, because all of that shit stopped when we were in school. That was kind of like a no go, and we had teach -  like, shout out to black educators, because our teachers weren't like - love Teach for America - They weren't like, disassociated from where we live, like they understood the context in which they were working, and so having to, like, dance against somebody, like hood versus hood on the weekends and come to school, they were like, “no, we not doing that here. Get ready for this black history play.” Like (Laughter) What are you talking about? So it is something that is really nice about that, like it was like a mediator, almost like to help us to navigate that a little bit. So I don't think it went as deep as it possibly could. But were we walking around doing like, I gotta say this, I don't even know. I kind of feel like this should be edited out just a little bit. But if y'all keep it in, it's cool to say. But I remember, you know, you grow up around people doing certain things, and you start to mimic that. I mean, the way that kids learn is by mimicking people. Right? before you can show that you know something you mimic. And we would, we would wear our colors. You wouldn't bang your hat to a certain side if you was on 27th like, that's just not a thing. But also we, I'm sure people do this, because I've heard that they did this in other hoods too - At one point in time - ugh It sounds so bad, but it was fun when we was grown up,-  we would take, like Kool Aid packs and mix it with sugar and put it in bags and sell it!  in plastic baggies. Y'all know what I’m referencing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=1973.0,2083.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Battle: That made its way south, that made its way south to Chatham aswell. \n\nThomas: Did it? \n\nBattle: Yeah, so I’m definitely familiar.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=2083.0,2094.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thomas: It's so familiar. So it's like you get, like, I know that there's a connection that's there, like we're mimicking. We're a direct - in direct contact. We're doing things - I'm loving to footwork and play basketball because my friends and we are doing a thing around - you get what I’m saying - we're constantly on multiple levels mimicking things that kind of feel good, but yeah, shout out to my school, because they were great mediators.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=2094.0,2123.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Battle: One of the first conversations that you and I had, what I remember, - and I keep going back trying to find my notes, because, like, it was, like, so poignant a story - was about, like, the crates, right? How important crates were to your family, culturally and in terms of repurposing, right? Can you? Can you retell that story?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=2123.0,2145.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thomas: Yeah, so aside from growing up in Dearborn Homes, this creative capacity that I had just expanded and kept expanding and kept expanding, and I was going with the flow, until I found myself doing research on design, right? And because it's always been fascinating to me where I grew up, and like how people actually survived where I grew up, a lot of my own research and sort of thinking -  the stuff that keeps me up at night - is around the ways in which blackness is spatialized, right, whether that's through the media or whether that's through just like buildings and sort of landscape and things like that. And I was going back through my family's photos, which I mentioned, you know,taking photos my entire life because my family lost their photos, and they found it really sad that they can't reference how they looked when they were younger. But going through those photos, I noticed the amount of crates that we reuse, like plastic milk crates. Those milk crates were everything from like a bed frame, and it's one of the sturdiest bed frames to this day, put your bed on there. You all right, lift it up, two, three crates high. Have fun. But it was also the bookshelf, and it was also multiple other things because I think what people have had the most access to, and the way that the milk crate has been remixed, is through the milk crate as a rim, like a basketball hoop. But in my house, it was just so many other things, obviously, it was like, we didn't necessarily have a stoop in the hood, like, I actually, like recently thought about that, like architects love to use, like, the word stoop and I’m like “we ain’t have no damn stoop, what did we have? What was that space that was in front of my house or whatever” but we use it to sit on it and all of those other things. But there are some particular moments of looking back through that sort of archive of like photos and how we use crates and things that started to stand out, and it was recalling sort of memories that I had - So I mentioned that my mom, my house, was the quote, unquote house party house. I hope she doesn't like kill me for saying it like that, but she loves music to this day, she's a sag y’all . She just loves to live life. passionate. But I particularly remember one day she was like, hooking up her speakers - like the brown speakers with the big amplifier in the front, that cushiony round circle that we all know from those old brown speakers - But she put the speaker on top of a crate, and she said that it changed the sound in the house, like the way the music reverberated off of the floor. Because I don't know what material that floor was, but it was something that it shouldn't be, shouldn't have been and then, you know, we had, like, cinder block walls, I mean, so she said it changed the soundscape in the house. And I thought that was pretty brilliant. And it was that moment I was like, Oh, shoot. My mom is not necessarily a visual artist or anything like that, but she's a creator. She's been an innovator my whole entire life. To see someone build a bed frame out of those crates were, that's also innovative. So, you know some people, it's a fine line between like struggling and innovation, and it's all about how you reframe what you were doing. And I chose at this point to see it as innovation and not just survival, even though we know the politics of that is built into what in what they were doing. Two kids, single mom. Ya know. So to me, that was powerful.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=2145.0,2379.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Battle:  yeah, DJ Clent has one of the same stories, right? And so this is the era he was talking about, the 90s, and ghetto house was, you know, there was, he was on the cusp of the transition from house and ghetto house, for him, he was talking about how he would use the cinder block walls to change the claps, the sounds of the claps that you hear in house music, the four on the floor put, you know, the sonic elements or whatever and he would say, like, you know, first of all, the walls were so hard that he still has scars on his hands, so that part is, is a sort of, kind of structural, quite literally, a structural violence. But then something came out of that, that structural violence, right? So culture, a revitalized and revolutionized culture, because he said that it changed the sound of the claps in the music, where he doesn't call the ghetto house, he calls it like Project house music. So, yeah, that's, that's a very similar story. Thank you for that. And I love that like, we can, we can reframe the narrative right, so that we are not simply reducing it to struggle, right, and we can begin to see it as black innovation. I really, really like that. Um, your ability to do that has a lot to reframe that narrative has, in many ways, I would imagine, a lot to do with your training, right? And so you've also mentioned how you use, like, critical race theory to think about design. Can you talk about that a little bit? Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=2379.0,2480.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thomas: So life is beautiful. Like, when you look at it, you don't understand something as you're going through it, but when you look back, you're like, “whoa, whoa!!! I’m so like - that that led to that, like, oh, that's really great.” But when I was in undergrad, like, I knew that I wanted to do something creative, and also school wasn't an option in my house, like you had to go to school, that was the thing. And when I went to undergrad, I decided to study graphic design. I was also the only Black student in all four years of the Graphic Design program. We also had a Master's level Graphic Design program. No black kids in that program, either. So throughout my entire career in Graphic Design at the University of Illinois, only black student. However, the man upstairs so happened, he aligned me with John Jennings, Afro futurist, comic book artist, beautiful soul. So not only was he a really great mentor, but he kind of like cracked my whole world view open. And what he was doing at the time was making these, like, black heroes and like, digging up their stories. Right now he's working with Marvel and the Black Silver Surfer, and like, he does this work around Black Kirby Jack Kirby is like a comic book artist that everyone knows, but he's like, what if we make that black? And so explore all of the sort of heroes that come out of that. And I took all of John’s classes, not only because he's just brilliant, but also because he was Black. And it wasn't like a distanced sort of Blackness. It was like, “Aw naw, you from Jackson, Mississippi, and we know to - , we know the laugh at the same things, like, we know to, you know, get mad at the same things, like, we have some type of, like, closeness and kinship that's happening there. And so naturally, you spend a lot of time with your mentors and people that you're inspired by. And he was working on, sort of building out. And this was during his like tenure tracks, when he was going out for tenure, but he was building out this practice of Critical Race Design Studies. And so what it does is it takes critical race theory and it intersects that with design. And so the premise of it is that everything in this world has been designed, including race, so race is a construction, and therefore it can be redesigned. And so if we do that, what do we begin to prioritize? What are the principles, the mindsets, the type of aesthetics, all of those things. And I just naturally just took off from there. And so knowing that John was into, like, comic books, he and his classes would ask us to, like, do these projects, it was like these, like quick, sort of quick fire challenges, and one day, it like, draw yourself in the future, or, you know, these sort of things where we'll draw one part and someone else to draw another part to see how other people think about how we're represented versus how we think about - it was really interesting, like a social experiment. But it was through those assignments of like, drawing myself with John over and over again, through different types of challenges that I started to understand what I was interested in, and it wasn't necessarily comic book artists or comics and comic heroes. I think that was like my brother's age group, like he grew up watching gargoyles Saturday morning, like cartoons. I did it with him, because that's my bro. But I was interested in something else. I was interested in, like Legos and connects. I don't know if y'all remember connects, like, the toys like, that's the stuff that I was interested in. I never really was a Barbie girl. I never played this voice versus this voice, even though my cousin who's my age, did. I was like, “how do you make that up? I don't get that.” But if it was building, I was building some stuff up, I was building things. And naturally, I think, like, over time and doing that reflection, it started to be about like the built environment. I was like, that's what I'm interested in. But I think I got away from the question.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=2480.0,2755.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Battle: No, no, no, no, that was good. No, we are right on target, \n\nThomas: Cause im just like blackness in the built environment. Let me like 0 what happens when I build that?\n\nBattle: No, that's, that's it. That's a good segue into so like, How then did you begin thinking about Critical race theory and its application to, like, Chicago and housing violence and public housing structures? \n\nThomas: Yup. Oh my God, you so good. (Laughter)","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=2755.0,2778.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thomas: Okay, so the program that I was in, like, they were very lucky to have John doing something that was like, very untraditional from what you're typically taught in graphic design. There was also someone else who Eric Benson, who's still at the University of Illinois, whose work is on, like, sustainable design, environmental design, both what John was doing around critical race design studies and what Eric Benson were doing around environmental sustainable design, those were untraditional things in graphic design. Most of the time when people think about graphic design, they think logos, they think websites, they think typography, color image, things like that. So primarily I was learning that. I thought that I also wanted to go into doing that. I did a little bit, but it felt a little bit unfulfilling, and I sort of switched past and went to a Master's degree and blah, blah, blah, blah. But during that time of undergrad, what I gravitated towards the most was branding. Something about Branding was like, I love this. It's like, the hood fabulous thing for me to do, like, we love like, I think about Dapper Dan, and like, you know, he was so commercial, but so raw and like, you know what I mean, taking his materials and remixing it, it was stylish. And I was like, “oh, that's genuine, and that's not a sell - You didn't do it in a sell out sort of way.” So he's been on my vision board of people who inspire me forever! And so, y'all can see where I get excited, but I think about that, and I was like, branding is that thing for me. It's the place where people come to get a logo. But it was more than just a logo. It was like, this is how you want the world to see you represented. And so I started to think about, like, how people like Dapper Dan were doing what they were doing in their own lane and fashion, and keeping it raw and remixing, and it still had, like, a commercial aspect to it, so it wasn't just about “the hood” right? It was about how you really tap into the things that are innately in you, from how you grew up, your mindsets and all of that - and you learn that it's a larger sort of level of industry that you can apply that to, that I don't think anybody else can do. Not in the ways that you do it when you kind of grow up with a certain level of grit and remix and sort of like teaching your own self and stuff like that. So branding became my thing. It was all about identity and representation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=2778.0,2935.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And we got this chance when I was in my senior year, for the first time to do whatever you wanted to do for  one 16-week course. It's called the Graphic Design Capstone. It's like any thesis project for a senior student. And they said, What do you want to do? \n\nSo I had just been through all of those quick fire exercises with John Jennings. I was going through all that branding traditional graphic design, sort of like courses in the program. And I said, “Oh, you want to know what I'm reflecting on the fact that I just moved out of Dearborn  Homes, and I'm also reflecting on the fact that there's a big conversation that's happening in Chicago around what's going to happen to those buildings, and people are already being displaced and moved out. And I see State Street downtown coming closer and closer and closer and closer to 21st Street, where you hit Hilliard Homes, where my auntie used to stay. And so it’s starting to look different. And so I started to imagine what is that going to look like when downtown State Street just grows across the State Street of the corridor, the public housing corridor? And so that led me into a conversation around gentrification -  What is it going to mean to gentrify the State Street corridor for public housing? And I did my project on that, my capstone project. So I made branding to talk about that issue. I was doing still screen like, you know, you silk screen like stuff onto a shirt? like screen printing. And I took an aerial view from Google maps of the buildings in Dearborn homes. And they were like these - they look like X's from the sky, which I think is so wild, but they look like X's. And I was taking that as like, the visual language and silk screening it onto beautiful fabrics. And like, yeah, gentrification is all about somebody making money, but are y'all thinking about the histories and the people when the things that you all are displacing. So it was kind of like a social justice project at the end, but it was also using, like, the poetics of graphic design and branding in order to do it. Yeah, so that's how I started to mix those.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=2935.0,3079.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Battle: Um, How did you - Well, no, let me go back. Place, space werks, right? And so we were so grateful to have you design our logo for  Place, space werks. And we went through a series of different examples, I learned what an asset was outside of economic discourse, right? Can you talk about like your role in designing our logo and the process and, yeah, connected to footwork?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=3079.0,3116.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thomas: Yes. First of all, I live off the principle that isolation is a sickness. I don't want to be the sole knowledge holder of anything. I want it to all be in community. And I have seen I try to stay connected to, like, have your your finger on the pulse, and like your feet on the ground of what's happening just locally, especially if you're doing things around like spatializing justice or specializing blackness as a part of my research practice, but also my creative practice. And so I'm thinking about, like, who's doing what in the city? And so naturally, I started to follow the Public Housing Museum, because I was like, this is one of the dopest things I've ever seen in my life. There's three museums that are like, my loves. I love the Museum of Contemporary Art, because I told y'all, that's where I really realized, like, I can do, I can be a part of this. Like, naturally, it just felt like somebody was speaking tome. I love Planet Word in DC, it talks about, like the etymology of words and like written language and so beautiful. And this museum, the Public housing Museum, because it's so - my story is entrenched in this space, like, who's given a platform to like ghetto culture, like ghetto like public housing, like, what? So it's when my mind is blown, and it's still blown right now.\n\nSo I naturally was like following the Artist as Instigators to see who else was doing things in the city. And also, it was this creative outlet that the museum was setting up. It was not just the history of public housing, and thinking about futures or contemporary sort of place of like people in housing, but it was also arts. And I remember sitting down and I saw a newsletter come that was talking about ShaDawn Battle’s work. I was like, “aw I gotta be there.” Because not only is this a creative thing that's happening, I think I resonated with the mission that you had the most, because it reminded me of the Jeremy's. It reminded me of the Bud Billiken  parades that I grew up in listening to this music, the Fun Days with my mom, the sort  - It just was like everything to me, and I was like, I gotta support this in some type of way. I can't feel like I have potential to, like, amplify something and not be a part of like, how can I help you? And I also feel driven at that moment, because even when you have so many things. I was going through the tenure track at the time, and you know, you still have family, you still have - I was like,-  the first thing I said after coming to your talk on Zoom, I was like, “How can I help you with this? I don't even care where, like, how, how?”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=3116.0,3296.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Battle: I am so indebted to you for doing so. Because, like, the work that you did for it was, and still is, like, you know, invaluable, right? And you put so much thought and some of - a lot of your own research and praxis into the logo that you created, right? And so I'm super grateful for that. How - talk about that process.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=3296.0,3320.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thomas: Yeah, it was, you know how you have some things in your back pocket that you just can't wait to kind of do, it's interesting because, again, like going through a tenure track, there's a certain type of currency to get in tenure. Like you write papers, you go to certain conferences, you do certain things, but then you you that means something else has to be kind of like sideline. And I don't want to build the story around that. It's just to talk about the realness of sometimes, how we don't necessarily get to do the thing that we want to do every single day, but you got to make room for and so I was also like, navigating that without a blueprint, and nobody telling me exactly how to do it, and I was like, this is the time. I'm making room for it, because I've been thinking about this since I've silk screen aerial views of Dearborn homes on these fabrics. I want to get back to that conversation more closely.\n\nAnd so when we talked, and you were, you were talking about this being at the - you had already been filming things. And I was like, that is really great, because it gave me, at least a, some type of, like, starting point to anchor myself to. But also seeing you dance as well was, like, really beautiful, like, coming right down Blue Island, and you, like, did a little thing you were supposed to be judging, but they pulled you in that circle. That was so that was just so beautiful to me, like watching that community, watching like you just, like, express something that was like, important to you, that don't even need explanation, it doesn't need words. It's just kind of like, it's just you, you do it. And so that's something that I wanted to tap into. So when I started to create this the logo, like having these conversations, having seen you perform, having heard the story, seen your introduction on the zoom to the project, I went back to thinking about the fact that this is also opportunity for me not to have to write myself out of it, because I'm so close in proximity to it. And so I was looking at that story, and there are some people that I was pulling from, and this is how I would tell you how, how important it is to work with someone who has that passion and has that like, such like a genuine spirit about what they're doing, because you were talking about the Black Panther Party so much and how pivotal it was to be introducing everyone who's a part of the showcase to that history, right? And I remember saying, :you know what? Who? How am I through design, knowing about the Black Panther Party? And that took me to Emory Douglas, the Minister of Culture. That's what they called, that’s like his title, like the Minister of Culture for the Black Panther Party. And he has this really interesting style where it kind of looks like newspaper colors and texture, it looks like collage and sort of cut out, and that's where it started. So you planted a seed by saying, at the foundation of this, we need to know this very like, it's historic, but it's also contemporary, because you were inviting his Son into the conversation, you all were meeting, you know, key figures of the Black Panther Party. And I was like, that's where you start. You start where you grew up, there in public housing, and you also are inspired by this history that ShaDawn is putting down. And so that style was like, what does it mean to take an Emory Douglas style and bring it up to a contemporary moment? How could that be in conversation? So I started to, like, play around with it, like letter forms and like shapes that felt like cut outs, collage, cut and paste, things like that. But it was also this other thing that happened too, just like hearing over time, like stories of people talking about or even the name of the project, “Footwork Saved my Life. There's, there's a dark side to that, right? It's beauty in that expression, but there's a dark side.” And so when I was looking, I was like, what else is like? What captures that in, like, the graphic design history? And I started to look at Saul Bass, who is a Jewish American graphic designer he has worked with, and people famously know him for working with like Alfred Hitchcock and making the title sequencing, sequencing for films like Psycho. Saul Bass’s work is dope. And it was about horror stories, and it was about like thrillers, and it was about creating a visual language and aesthetic for that. And so I started to mix Emory Douglas with the heart of Saul Bass to tell that story, because I thought that was beautiful. And then, you, know, I put a lil - a little me in there too, its like a building of the Dearborn in there to replace one of the - yeah - it was a lot going on, but that was like, how I began to, like, have a starting point.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=3320.0,3631.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Battle: I think that one of the things that I really, really liked was you incorporating footwork with infrastructure, right? And a huge part of the story that I've been trying to make known is that footwork has been shaped by a lot of like venal housing policies and practices, right? Like the Plan for Transformation. And the Plan for Transformation, at the center of it is movement. It's a forced movement, right? Just like, you know, a lot of black folks came here because we -  they, you know, to the north, because they were forced here. We were forced here on this continent. We were forced here in North America, right? And black people were forced out of these spaces, right, out of most of you know, the high rises and the public housing structures that litter State Street, and, you know, the surrounding areas, right? And so movement has been really important to my project right. And footwork, in and of itself, is about embodied movement. And what I like is that you somehow were able to capture movement in relationship to place right, and in relationship to space, right, which forces us to think about how footwork has been shaped by forced movement, right, as well as how the sort of the structure itself encapsulated and housed movement, right, embodied movement, like you talked about the you know, your house was the house party, right? And in footwork existing within housing, within public housing. And so anyway, this is me saying, like, I got a lot from it, and I really appreciate the logo. The logo means, you know, a whole lot to me. And I don't know if you want to say anything else about footwork and movement in the logo.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=3631.0,3736.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thomas: No, I think that - okay, s o you know how you lay out like a structure, and then something happens on the structure? The structure was literally like, Emory Douglas and Saul Bass, like, came together because, you know, that's that feels like the intersection, but that was like a foundation. But when I was looking at the logo and looking at the words, Place, Space and Werkz, I was just like, Wait, okay, place and space. Those are very different things. One is like, abstract, the other is a thing that someone gives meaning to. Like, you define a place, right? It only happens through, like, human experience, through emotion, through interaction, and also something that was really important, and I got this from like, actually talking to you on the phone one day, and it was something that was about, like, legibility and it was, it was, it's always about access that I see at the root of what you were doing is like, how can you see yourself as, like, this beautiful artist, and not just take footworking as just a thing that I just know how to do, or it's cool, it's fun, but no, this is like something that's on a world stage, and like, through those conversations, I began to think about like, how the written word, just like Place, Space, and Werkz, It can't just be like typography in some type of way. It has to be like another emotion that's added to it. Because design isn't just the thing. It's about us giving and breathing life into it. And that's actually where, like, the symbols and the icons sort of came in, with the stars representing different the fact that this went across four different locations the building, because that's important. I mean, we look at movies like Candyman, and people look at the buildings that was shot in, and they're like, Oh, this is horrible, like, you know, the buildings, people look at the building before they look at the people, it's crazy. So that had to be in there. And then it was like, How can I not represent this important feature of the legs and the foot? And so that became like the leg of the “K”. Became like footworking, and it was also inspired by a picture that you had shown me of your homie, one of your homies who I didn't know at the time had passed away. He had on a yellow like, Jersey, like, yeah - And I was like, man, it was something about that picture, though, that stood out to me, like everybody's eyes were on him. He was just doing his thing. It felt like seeing - in that picture, he was in his own world. He didn't care about nothing that was around him. He did, but he didn't.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=3736.0,3892.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Battle: Yeah. That picture was taken in Altgeld Gardens, right? And so he was of public housing. He was like he was Altgeld Gardens of his generation. Shout out to Kiki. Rest in peace to Ernest price, aka Kiki. And you know, I'm very proud to say that that logo is an ode to him in many ways, like a lot of the work that I do on environmental racism, is an ode to him and the ways in which he was conceptualizing the violence of all guilt gardens as a very young kid, that alerted me to it, right? I just knew that something didn't smell very good, some stank on the bishop Ford, right? I didn't understand anything else - so just the fact that that logo embodies, visually embodies so much, right? And the purpose of the work that I do is embodied art and the purpose of this archive. You know, this particular cohort is, what is it - embody, embodying the arc - , embodying the archive, yeah embodying the archives, and so so much synergy and overlap. \n\nThe showcase, or not just the showcase, but this - so I'm not sure what else you attended, I can't remember. I know you came to some workshops-  like so talk about, can you talk about the workshops? Talk about, like, some of the things that went on, and then move on to the Showcase.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=3892.0,3985.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thomas: Okay? Just like my Raw sort of like - \n\nBattle: Yup Yup. \n\nThomas: Um, I don't know -  like I am such a sentimental person. I often sit and think about how in these times we have scholars and really brilliant thinkers. And when I say scholars, I don't just mean in like institutional spaces, but people who actually have good thought and critical thinking, and that can be at the kitchen table, the spades game,  and it can be - something about that is really beautiful. But I often think, think too about when people try to articulate this to the world, and they often do that through, like, publishing and stuff they tend to like use the same type of thought leaders over and over again, bell hooks and Dubois and Kimbelry Crenshaw and we love them. At least we stopped just saying Rosa Parks and like, Martin Luther King, because they was gone kill me, like y’all don’t know nobody but Marcus Garvey, like, what? (Laughter) but I often think about how, like, when we get older and we're like, let's say late 50s, 60s, 70s, are we still going to only be quoting the same people? Like bell hooks and Dubois and Martin Luther King. Like, what are we doing in this contemporary moment to create the type of like substance, depth, power, through our words, through our actions, that our kids are going to be like, we gotta reference that thing. And I said all that to say that when I came to the workshop, I was like, the kids gonna be referencing this thing right here. I know it. The folks - on many different levels too, because it was a whole sort of orchestration of like past and present coming together, like having - was it DJ Clent who was there?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=3985.0,4107.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Battle: Clent. \n\nThomas: It was multiples.  \n\nBattle: (DJ) Slugo.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=4107.0,4111.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thomas: Yea! It was multiple, like heavy hitters in the room, and the way that they were talking about their stories and then pairing that up against what was going on with the environmental justice organizing around Altgeld Gardens and the toxic donut and all of that. And you could see, like, they were sitting back and like, “Yup, Yup,” that might come out in the spades days later. Like, that's what I mean. Like, it was so interesting in that moment to see how the past and the present were overlapping the things that people were saying that they were paying attention to and were privy of, but never had the space otherwise to say those things, the fact that the public housing museum was involved in that and creating a space like trying to pull off that endeavor, people are going to be referencing that 30-40, years from now, like, this is how you do the thing. This is how you investigate. This is how you do it through the arts, right? The stuff that was said in that room. So it was just to me, just like mind blowing. I actually didn't want to say anything there, because I didn't. I just wanted to learn. I felt like a sponge, but with the cyphers and like having us do the affirmations at the beginning, with Mad Dog with his affirmations, I was like this is a healing circle! This is, this is too much.  (Laughter) It was so much. So I was just like, Wow. This is, this is action, right here.  This is, this is game changing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=4111.0,4203.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Battle: Yeah. Like, you know, in the academy, we might refer to it as, like a sort of polyvocality, right? So when multiple different spaces get to occupy the discourse, but it was just like bottom-up politics for me, right? How do we allow the people at the bottom to tell their stories and to shade in the theory, right? So, yes, I have theorist at the workshops who are saying, this is what I wrote my book about, but you also have people in the audience saying, I live this. I'm the theorist. I'm the experiential theorist, right?\n\nThomas: Street smarts, book smarts. Just merged in that space. \n\nBattle: Yeah, facts, facts, facts. And, you know, I wanted to end with the cyphers. You mentioned the cyphers because, like, I wanted - because our bodies hold so much trauma, and so I wanted our bodies to be able to sort of metabolize like that, you know, like the - all the traumas we've consumed over, over the decades. And I say “we” as a collective right. I didn't live in public housing, but the more that you do this work, right, the morevested you are in the and the more that you are also experiencing second hand, even like, you know, like that trauma. And I remember the sites, right? I remember, like, I could, I could see, you know, from, from 83rd and Calumet, if I look north, right, I could see downtown. It's like so you can see downtown, but in between, you know, Chatham and downtown, there was a people, right, a community. You know, and they've been bulldozed to, you know, to ashes, right? Not, you know, not the Dearborn, but 90%. And so, yeah, man, I'm glad you were able to attend that, and the goal was for it to culminate in a showcase. And I'm so grateful that you attended the showcase. What would you think of the showcase?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=4203.0,4313.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thomas: The showcase is beyond what I would have thought. It still had the same like ethos and essence, though, because I'm probably going to say this all out of sequence, but we get this beautiful sort of like narrated story that unfolds across chapters about the multiple different ways in which the body, the black body, the body and conversation with space is policed, how it's a target for just outright violence. (nervous laughter.) And when I was watching this performance, I was also still just like thinking about the wellness of all of the young people that you had dancing, and how that felt to them, to be using the art form in order to express something that I know, that they know in like, I don't want to equate their experience to mine, but I was kind of numb, I told you, like, the same person that was in the gangs was the person I went to school with, so I had, like, a love for them, so a little bit of me was numb to violence and gang life and stuff like that. It wasn't the reaction that someone who hadn't been exposed to that will have, right? It's kind of like, oh, they already know, but I know to go upstairs because it's about to get heated. Like, no somebody else will be scared shitless. So I was just constantly thinking about, like, how is this transforming their lives? Like, that's what I was actually paying attention to during that whole thing. So the story was there. It was beautiful, the poetics of the dancing, but really the change that I knew that it was making for them was something else, and to relive, like, a certain level of trauma, because it was a moment in there was like, you know, they found Fred Hamtpon  dead, and that was a charged scene for me, and I was like, Okay, what? What is going on in their psyche to I know that they know that they're performing, but going on in their psyche to be using guns and to be also like playing someone playing a perpetrator or aggressor and someone playing, you know what I mean, it's multiple roles that's happening. But then I thought back to the workshops, and I was like, but they did the workshops, they had those affirmations. They know the community that's around them. They are firm. They already built up a certain level of a bond with each other. And I was like, oh, okay, that's why everything needs, like, the proper context to be able to explore it over time. So we don't just put somebody in a position where they have to react a traumatic sort of scene, and that's it. Naw, you need to, you need to build some cushion around it. But then too, you invited, like, during a showcase, there was, like a intermission where the artist, who had, I think, created the doors, was invited to say something about it?  And I was like, Yo, this is so…this is beautiful. This is beautiful. Because every little, small detail was intentional, cared for thought out. It was never - I was not left with a question afterwards. It was just something about that unfolded. I wanted to talk about the ethos and the essence of what you were doing, from the workshops to the actual performance, and how powerful that was. And seeing the logo and the background was interesting too, because you never know exactly how things are going to pair up. But it still felt appropriate. It felt like it was in the same language as what was being performed as seeing the door and the artist who created the door, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=4313.0,4530.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Battle: Unfortunately, we ran out of resources and time to add, to actually add art around the Plan for Transformation, right? And the specific topic of the public housing structures that were demolished and the people who were displaced, and, you know, offered false promises just because the summer ran out, I was about to have a baby, \n\nThomas: Yeah. \n\nBattle: and a bunch of stuff was happening, right? And so our plan is to still create art, right? Movement based art around that particular topic. So I think you're still Right, right? So the feet on the, you know, the dancing feet on the building, still resonated with me, right? So we still have to talk about, you know, I still, it still made me think about Kiki, who was gunned down in a community, right? And so, of course, we don't subscribe to black on black crime, but we also, but we, what we do have to subscribe to is, like all the the socioeconomic factors that give birth to black on black violence, that engineer and manufacture black -, and part of that is displacement and putting people in different communities so that they can war with each other, and divesting the community of resources until folks begin to act like animals and see each other as opps. And so it was still like the logo, you're right, it still spoke to a lot of what the young people are dealing with, right? Because the guy who's playing Fred Hampton senior, Chairman, Fred Hampton senior, you know a young guy, you know he has to get shot and die right over and over and over again, and it's, it's like he's living in history, but he's also living within the current moment. And so he knows so many different people who, who you know, had to suffer that fate. And so I was hoping that it didn't feel that real to him, right? I was hoping that it felt like a distant historical reality. But you know what the point of the showcase is that, like naw, this violence exists on a historical continuum. You know what I'm saying. So.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=4530.0,4663.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thomas: Yup. That's real. I appreciate that. The thinking behind that too. Care.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=4663.0,4668.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"robinson: Was there anything else you want to talk about thatwe didn't bring up?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=4668.0,4678.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thomas: Oh, I can - I feel like I'm just going to be sending you voice notes.  don't know if it's a blooper thing or what, but you know, it also takes a certain type of person to lead these initiatives and to - I mean, the only way I can really say it is from a very spiritual standpoint, that you can’t be lukewarm in what you do. You can't. It's no It's no time when - like, people are dying senselessly, its no time to be lukewarm. You have to, like, pick a path. And it was a moment when we were talking about the logo and, you know, trying to maintain, like, a genuineness about the approach, and, like, add my own thing to it, but definitely be a deep listener and try to understand, like, the essence of what you're trying to capture. And we were, like, going through - visualizing the corridor. And I remember the first time that I showed it to you, you were like, “Yeah, I like this. But it feels like some of them need to be like, you know, going on with it.” And it goes back to that principle, I don't necessarily talk about it with other people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=4678.0,4825.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Battle: Yeah, I have to do the same thing with footwork, right? Because, like, I had my own relationship to it, but my relationship, like, was so limited to a particular historical radius, right, the time in which I grew up, and that is the history of Chicago footwork, that initially I was only going to tell, because that's what I knew, until I began to talk to other people. And so I'm like, I have to tell a more nuanced story, because my personal history is not a collective one. And so yeah, you're right. Like, isolation doesn't breed communal a communal ethos or communal narratives, right? And so I really like that. And I want to say, like, one of the assets that says, I don't know if it is p -, I think it was PSW, that, like placement reminded me of, like the State Street corridors, right? Like where, you know, the P might be one 10, block radius of buildings the “s” might be - So that's so, yeah, you're right. Like, I was seeing something very different that may not have been intentional on your part, but at the end of the day, like it, you know, it was just, I think, a perfect representation of what we were trying to accomplish. \n\nSo, and I just want to say thank you again, because it was dope and you were super instrumental in helping us carry that - the project through to its conclusion. \n\nThomas: I appreciate that. \n\nBattle: Anything else?\n\nrobinson: Iconic Logo. \n\nBattle: and your work, like just the way that you think about, like, spatializing blackness and using, you know, the term we're not supposed to be saying, to think about structures that house black pe ople, and what we make of those and how we can rethink and reframe the narratives about them. So, innovative work, good work, necessary work, too. \n\nThomas: I want to be valuable in this world. Legacy is important, Legacy. \n\nBattle: and thank you for doing this like super impromptu.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=4825.0,4958.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Battle: That's one thing black people don't do. They don't give you time to prepare. But do you say concluding remarks or no for your purposes? \n\nrobinson: Um not normally. \n\nBattle: Okay? Yeah, we cool. That was great. That was really good.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433#t=4958.0,4976.213"}]},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/170531/file/309433/transcript/94490/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/094/490/original/Thomas_Nekita_Interview_Transcript_2025.12.docx?1781194609","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/094/490/original/Thomas_Nekita_Interview_Transcript_2025.12.docx?1781194609"}]}]}]}