{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/3n20c4v35r/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Black, Dr. Tim (Interview #1, 2017)"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/548/original/OHA_Mark_2.0_Transp._copy.png?1752767076","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Narrator(s)"]},"value":{"en":["Dr. Timuel Black, Jr. (Full Name)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Refer to as"]},"value":{"en":["Dr. Tim Black"]}},{"label":{"en":["Narrator Pronouns"]},"value":{"en":["he/him"]}},{"label":{"en":["Interview Summary"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eIn this oral history, Dr. Timuel Black shares his memories of the reason for the beginning of the great migration. As he reflects on family values and the history of traumatic events that affected the Black community, such as lynching and the KKK patrols. Dr. Black encourages his listeners to persevere and continue the struggle for equality and build a legacy for future youth and activists. Dr. Timuel Black uses sharing his oral history to demonstrate how the process of interviewing is a tool for social transformation and the result of the oral history is an educational tool to use for the benefit for community.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e \u003c/p\u003e (summary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Public Housing Affiliation"]},"value":{"en":["Other connection to PH"]}},{"label":{"en":["Content Warnings"]},"value":{"en":["Known Perpetrators","Enslavement","Death","White Terror","Physical Violence"]}},{"label":{"en":["Themes/Topics"]},"value":{"en":["The Great Migration","The South","Education","Housing and/or Public Policy","Mentorship and/or Role Models","Empowerment","Poverty","Intergenerational Relationships","Race and/or Racial Identity","Racism and White Supremacy"]}},{"label":{"en":["Keywords"]},"value":{"en":["Oral History","Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.","Mayor Harold Washington Jr.","Country commissioner","Social justice","Black struggle","The Chicago Defender","Railroad industry","The Black Belt","legacy"]}},{"label":{"en":["Life Dates"]},"value":{"en":["1918-12-07 (Birth)","2021-10-13 (Death)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Race/Ethnicity"]},"value":{"en":["Black, African American, and/or African Diasporic"]}},{"label":{"en":["Biographical Context"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eDr. Timuel Black is a veteran, social worker, scholar, philosopher, oral historian, educator, political activist, community leader, and beloved member of his community, the Southside of Chicago. He said upon return home from serving in the US Army during WWII where he freed and met holocaust survivors that “the rest of my life would be spent trying to make where I live, and the bigger world, a place where all people could have peace and justice.” He was born in Birmingham, Alabama and raised in Chicago. He ran for public office, alderman, state senator, and state legislator. Eventually he helped to elect Chicago’s first Black Mayor, Harold Washington. Black was a mentor to Carol Mosely Braun and former President Obama, sharing with him how to become a leader of the people. Black is remembered for his “great well of empathy”, as he was described by former President Obama. And for his social justice campaign with Dr. Martin Luther King Jr, leading Freedom Trains to the March on Washington, in 1963 to Washington, DC to hear Dr. King’s, “I Have a Dream” speech. Dr. Black was a local oral historian, led tours for over twenty years of Bronzeville, Chicago’s premier Southside neighborhood, sharing to scores of people about the years he lived, his work for justice and freedom, and Dr. King’s presence in Chicago. His books, archival collection at University of Chicago, and a scholarship that bears his name will keep the memory of a man who worked tirelessly for justice, his community, and the liberation of all people alive.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Interview materials available"]},"value":{"en":["Audio—.wav","Index (in Aviary time-sync)","Finding aid—polished PDF","Transcript—rough PDF"]}},{"label":{"en":["Oral Historians"]},"value":{"en":["Shirley Alfaro (Interviewer)","Suzanne Snider (Interviewer)","Shakira Johnson (Post-Production by)","Nedra Deadwyler (Post-Production by)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Interview Date"]},"value":{"en":["2017-07-26 (Recorded)","2024-03-28 (finding aid last updated)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Method of Interview"]},"value":{"en":["in-person"]}},{"label":{"en":["Recording Location(s)"]},"value":{"en":["Chicago, IL (Narrator)","Chicago, IL (Interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Audio Quality Notes"]},"value":{"en":["Good sound quality for Dr. Black, poor sound for audience members when asking questions."]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eEach oral history interview is considered to be co-created, ‘joint work’ among the oral historian, narrator, and, in this case, the Museum. In joint works, the creators are considered joint copyright owners, who have “an equal right to register and enforce the copyright” (Rich Stim, Stanford Libraries, “Copyright Ownership: Who Owns What?”). Standard copyright law grants a number of exclusive rights to each of the copyright owners, including: the rights to \u003cstrong\u003ereproduce, distribute, adapt, perform, and display\u003c/strong\u003e the work(s), privately and publicly. NPHM manages these components using Creative Commons Licenses. All interviews are shared with \u003cstrong\u003eAttribution and Non-Commercial 4.0 International licenses (CC BY-NC 4.0 Deed)\u003c/strong\u003e, meaning that they can be reproduced, distributed, performed, and displayed for the general public if the user credits the co-creators (Attribution) and does not make money from the usage (Non-Commercial). \u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e \u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003ePlease contact the NPHM Oral History Programs Manager if you'd like to download a copy of any of the interview materials (audio file, transcript, or finding aid contents).\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Preferred Citation"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eWhen using an interview from the NPHM Oral History Archive, use the narrator's full name the first time you reference them. Use the narrator's \"Refer to As\" name in additional mentions of their name.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cbr\u003e \u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cbr\u003ePlease use the following formatting when citing the interview in academic settings:\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBibliography Example\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cbr\u003ePegues, Janetta Sue. Interviewed by Francesco De Salvatore. National Public Housing Museum Oral History Archive, [insert URL/DOI], recorded June 18, 2018, accessed June 2, 2024: pp. 10-15.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cbr\u003eBibliography Format\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cbr\u003e[NarratorFullName in Last First Middle order]. Interviewed by [InterviewerFullName in First Middle Last Order]. National Public Housing Museum Oral History Archive, [insert URL], recorded [write out full date of interview], accessed [write out full date of most recent access]: pp. [pages of transcript cited].\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFootnote Example\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cbr\u003eJanetta Sue Pegues, interviewed by Francesco De Salvatore, National Public Housing Museum Oral History Archive, [insert URL], recorded June 18, 2018, accessed June 2, 2024: pp. 10-15.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cbr\u003eFootnote Form\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cbr\u003e[NarratorFullName in First Middle Last Order], interviewed by [InterviewerFullName in First Middle Last Order] National Public Housing Museum Oral History Archive, [insert URL], recorded [write out full date of interview], accessed [write out full date of most recent access]: pp. [pages of transcript cited].\u003c/p\u003e"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eIn this oral history, Dr. Timuel Black shares his memories of the reason for the beginning of the great migration. As he reflects on family values and the history of traumatic events that affected the Black community, such as lynching and the KKK patrols. Dr. Black encourages his listeners to persevere and continue the struggle for equality and build a legacy for future youth and activists. Dr. Timuel Black uses sharing his oral history to demonstrate how the process of interviewing is a tool for social transformation and the result of the oral history is an educational tool to use for the benefit for community.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eEach oral history interview is considered to be co-created, \u0026lsquo;joint work\u0026rsquo; among the oral historian, narrator, and, in this case, the Museum. In joint works, the creators are considered joint copyright owners, who have \u0026ldquo;an equal right to register and enforce the copyright\u0026rdquo; (Rich Stim, Stanford Libraries, \u0026ldquo;Copyright Ownership: Who Owns What?\u0026rdquo;). Standard copyright law grants a number of exclusive rights to each of the copyright owners, including: the rights to \u003cstrong\u003ereproduce, distribute, adapt, perform, and display\u003c/strong\u003e the work(s), privately and publicly. NPHM manages these components using Creative Commons Licenses. All interviews are shared with \u003cstrong\u003eAttribution and Non-Commercial 4.0 International licenses (CC BY-NC 4.0 Deed)\u003c/strong\u003e, meaning that they can be reproduced, distributed, performed, and displayed for the general public if the user credits the co-creators (Attribution) and does not make money from the usage (Non-Commercial).\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003ePlease contact the NPHM Oral History Programs Manager if you'd like to download a copy of any of the interview materials (audio file, transcript, or finding aid contents).\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["National Public Housing Museum"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["National Public Housing Museum"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/548/original/OHA_Mark_2.0_Transp._copy.png?1752767076","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/238/946/small/52.JPG?1711643241","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - Black__Timuel_Interview__1_Audio_leveled_1st_2017.07.26.wav"]},"duration":4859.837,"width":640,"height":40,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/238/946/small/52.JPG?1711643241","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-nphm.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/238/946/original/Black__Timuel_Interview__1_Audio_leveled_1st_2017.07.26.wav?1711562356","type":"Audio","format":"audio/wav","duration":4859.837,"width":640,"height":40},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Dr. Timuel Black Transcript (Interview 1, 2017.07.26) [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dr. Timuel Black: And whenever you enter in, I'm gonna—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=0.0,3.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Shirley Alfaro: I'm just gonna go ahead and introduce you. Okay. I'm gonna go ahead and introduce you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=3.0,7.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Black: That's up to you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=7.0,9.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Alfaro:  Hi, everyone. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to come today we welcome you to the museum, the National Public Housing Museum. I'm Shirley. You'll be meeting some folks. Here, Robert my colleagues. I know, Margaret, lots of different colleagues around. But I want to acknowledge that we have some guests from the board, and also a student group, a student class from the After School Matters program that's also working on a multimedia piece that came to hear our wonderful guest today. So I just want to use a little cheat sheet to make sure I capture it, I won't go into too much. But what we are super excited and over the moon, that Mr. Black has agreed to come and be a special guest for the oral history summer school class and for all of you. And Mr. Black is a pioneer of oral history, who has decades of experience documenting the Black history in Chicago with a particular focus on the Southside, the Great Migration and the civil rights movement. He is a legend of Chicago for his activism ranging from collaborating with Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. to aiding the election of Merrill Mayor Harold Washington, Jr. And more recently, he was integral in helping bringing the Obama Presidential Library to the Southside of Chicago. He's now retired from teaching for Mr. Black continues to use history as a tool for social justice. And he aims to inspire and guide younger generations of story of younger generations through stories of Black struggle and achievement. So, it's my great honor to welcome Mr. Black here. [Applause]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=9.0,113.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Black:  Thank you very much for that introduction, I hope I can live up to some of the [compromises] [promises] that you're making. But I can say with some degree of accuracy, that I say that already, you folk here, scholars, intellectuals, and all that I used to be your age. And one day, you are going to be this age. What will your life be? Between now? And then? What can you look back and talk about in that period of your life, and earlier, that might be helpful to others who are different. And so oral history give you that? Well, it gives you that responsibility to keep on going. Because I'm sure if your ancestors hadn't kept on going, you wouldn't be here. There's a responsibility that I think you owe to their legacy, negative or positive. That will help to inspire you, inform you, and share that with others who may be less fortunate. So I feel that responsibility. Story goes, maybe I shouldn't start until everyone has eaten their lunch. That's up to you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=113.0,236.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Alfaro:  know, we can we can eat and eat and talk, talk and have a conversation. I also want to introduce Suzanne. Oh,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=236.0,243.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Black:  thank you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=243.0,244.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Suzanne Schneider: Thank you. I'm Suzanne Schneider. And I'm the founder and director of oral history summer school. And we're happy to have guests here today to this ring of people here. I was telling Mr. Black are embarking on their first experiences oral historians tomorrow, starting an oral history of public housing. And so we start that project tomorrow. This is day three of our oral history training. And we feel so honored to have you here to ask you questions, and just to support this work. So thank you so much. They have lots of questions for you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=244.0,283.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Black:  Go right ahead.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=283.0,284.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Schneider: All right. So this is a really rare opportunity to ask Mr. Black about some of the questions you might have about oral history, using oral history in pursuit of social justice. And I wanted to know I would like to start with a question?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=284.0,304.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Maria Moons: Is honored to meet you. My name is Maria. I wanted to know more about your childhood, and anything that you could think of within your childhood that really sparked. This this fire. This mission that you've been on all of your life.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=304.0,326.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Black: Well, let me humorize at the same time tell the story. I was born in Birmingham, Alabama. My parents had been sharecroppers which you historians would know, was the kind of designation was given to them after slavery after the Emancipation Proclamation, and all of that. And in that period, to keep people of African descent, see most African Americans are mixed, but we get blamed because by African ancestry. They were deprived of all the opportunities except to do the dirty heavy work of the South. And some of them were aggressive. My father was among those kind of aggressive, but he had white friends who he was a sharecropper. But most of the slaves in the period were concentrated in places like Mississippi and South Carolina, but most slave owners had relatively few slaves, Abraham Lincoln's family had 10. And so they came out of that. And I was born. I had a brother and sister older. And the humor of the story goes, that I was born December 7 1918. And the story goes that when I was eight months old, I looked around at what was going on, [but lenses] and all that I was eight months old, I said to my mom was shit I'm leaving here. Mama said to Dad, Dixon this boy getting ready to leave. And he doesn't even know how to change his diapers. I'm going with him. Point is, that's when I can that humor, as you know, is that part of the lab. But that dramatizes and gives humor to that period of time of what we now call the first Great Migration, which comes during World War One. And right after World War One up to World War Two, two different separations now. The Volume One, Volume Two, and Volume Three of Bridges of Memory, which I hope some of you will get to read, tells that story of others in an oral history form. That I went through people that I knew of the first Great Migration and the first Great Migration from the south of African Americans was they fled the South. Now there were always African Americans in the north, or in Chicago. Jean Baptiste Pointe DuSable now pronounce DuSable was Haitian father. French Haitian mother French father had never been enslaved, was the first nonnative to settle on the banks of the Chicago River, what we call the Chicago River. And from that point on, there were always some people of color. But they were kind of integrated into the general community and many of them came via a process another story and they were not necessarily treated very badly but with the influx of demand for cheap labor, cheap labor, which was to be in opposition not because they wanted to be, to the immigrants from Europe, who had learned to organize labor unions with the urbanization, the change the industrialization and urbanization. They had learn to organize labor unions. These were former former farm workers, that these people who had learned that like my dad, again I'll personalize it had moved from sharecropping, to me and met my mother in Birmingham, and worked in that had worked in the stock in the steel mill and the coal mines around there said would come urbanize and still in terms of common labor. And so, the South, I mean, the northern industrialists and commercialist set agents south to recruit these somewhat urbanized, Negros. Also, editor the founder of the Chicago Defendant, Oscar, I mean, Albert, Robert Albert sent, agents through the Pullman Porters of the railroad industry, south with newspapers in Chicago Defender saying, come north young man, and talking about the beauty and then some of mine, like my relatives had relatives who had left the south. And they were stimulating that come to come north young man, young woman, most men were mostly men workers. The women were still housewives at that time that used to be kids. And so that gave them an opportunity to leave the south with some assurance, temporary, though it may have been, that they would have income, not the house where I was born. And Alabama and right outside of Birmingham, in Birmingham, but of the Black village of Birmingham. It was still there until about two or three years ago, it was bought, and it's being used now to sort of make money for someone. But that was they were not leaving poverty. Those people they fled the South for three basic reasons to be able to fight back if the Ku Klux Klan or something. And they did and miserable, were lynched. And that's another story of lynching of Black males and females during this period, early period, and that might help to understand the the, the civil rights evolution in Montgomery, Alabama, as well. And they came to places like well, my family came to Chicago and as I told the humorous story, and we settled on the Southside. They fled the South for three reasons one, to be able to fight back if they were attacked by Caucasians to fight back with some degree of equality to to be able to vote. And that earlier, migration out voted percentage wise, not numerically. Out voted the Caucasian population from Europe. That was a cut. Did they will ask each other Did you vote? Did you register to vote? Did you vote they pretty well knew who you vote for but \"Did you vote?\" that was a part of the culture. And I know that because I lived with and listened to my mommy and daddy asked their neighbors and the neighbors ask them. And to get quality as a better education for the children. Most of the people in my generation graduated from high school have had businesses and they also their children graduated from high school and then that their children, mostly graduated from college. That's the first Great Migration. And that is a period where in the ghetto in the Black Belt, as Robert Albert coined it.  Creation of parallel institutions, parallel economic institutions. It was a theme, don't spend your money where you can't work. I never worked outside the Black Belt till I went to college, didn't have to, we organized. If you didn't hire me, we're gonna put you out of business. Had a theme, don't spend your money where you can't work. So in that ghetto, parallel institutions, electing our own representatives, that had been state representatives. And I'm trying to remember names now that were people of color. But they did not necessarily represent just a Black community. The first Congressman after Reconstruction, Robert Albert, who had been a state representative, and you see his name as the county commissioner on the County Board of County where the city hall and county is located. And the first 10 Black millionaires in the country, from the Black Belt because of this concentration, small businesses were prosperous. And there was a possibility of identification. Though my father worked in the stockyards and steel mill, Dr. Dove and Dr. Love and all those professionals, some of those that live right down the street, though we were crowded in the kitchen, that they lived in pretty plush housing, talking about the Southside now. And so there was this kind of consolidation and proliferation of power and energy. That even though although my brother growing up and my sister had grown up in a period of more prosperity, when the Great Depression came along in the twenties is that you may have heard your great great grandparents, so we will not depressed because we saw prosperity around us. And we created cultural as a jazz became popular in the Black Belt, Louie Armstrong and others of that period, Bessie Smith Mamie Smith, Blues, Gospel. So we had a rhythm and a bounce. And we related to it. That's just a small part of the oral history that many of the people the Oral History of Bridges of Memory is my generation, the generation of my children, and the generation of what would be my grandchildren, by participants of the first Great Migration, the Second Great Migration come from the rural agricultural, pushed off the land had been deprived of the opportunity to go to school, better not go to First Great Migration. The families when those who came to the urban seldom had more than three children. Children were a high penalty. In other words, my mother would say if somebody had more than three children, how are they gonna pay for those children, you cause you focus on money? Children costs because they didn't work in the fields in the Second Great Migration were pushed off the land by the creation of new agricultural technology. And so they would had been deprived of the opportunity to go to school, they were not dumb. It would been deprived of the opportunity to go to school now I was in the Army in World War Two. And some of our fellow soldiers were from the rural agricultural south. I had never seen I've been around since 18, 19, and 20 year-olds, who couldn't read or write. They had been, they couldn't read or write, but they could shoot. And they learn to speak French real quick, when we got into France, so they were not incompetent, they had been deprived. And so there was another feeling that I developed. And that was that separation that I had experienced in the North was more dramatic in the south more undesirable, where they could not get the access to the resources necessary to keep moving. And that, for some of us, made some white, as well set the groundwork for us coming back and immediately demanding I could not do, for example, when I was in the army with my soldier suit on, I had, when I would visit when my parents would only went back to the south, if somebody had died. And while I was playing basketball, you didn't have to be six- nine in those days. I, they would take the team take your team back, but they would shelter us they knew we went down. So we didn't get out into where we might be getting into trouble. But in the army, if we did not think about sitting on the back of the bus, or to the designated seat, or getting off the sidewalk, a person, a Caucasian walking down the street, could demand that we get off the street, or get lynched, even though we had American uniforms. Now, tell this story, young folk, to let you understand that's the way it was. And then that isn't the way it has to be. Because with the inspiration, and the imagery of our parents, and our friends, we brought about some changes. For those in my generation of my children of the privilege. And then the less fortunate the separation that comes about, and public housing was one of those separations, Second Gen, Second Migration, concentrated in high rise public housing. And yet, many took the same dream had the same dream that my generation had, and have been quite successful. But not enough as percentage wise in my generation. And I do that to help you think about public housing and its history. And think about the positive of Jane Addams and Ida B. Wells that were public housing in Chicago and others. The on the north side, public housing, low rise, that was famous for poor whites, who also had gone through similar experiences, and the importance of public housing, in helping those people of that generation and the other public housing that came with the high rises and the concentration of that, that population and the breakdown of the family because of the jobs going away. And bringing some understanding of some of the things, some of the problems we may have today. I can talk forever about this whole thing.  But oral history is a way to get to understand, know, and I appreciate that history, as told by people who lived it. When you go to talk with others, let them tell as you're doing with me. Let them tell their story. Is their story, not your story. You may disagree with and be able to prove that they said something wrong, but it's theirs story. Don't evaluate it while they're telling this story. You want to know their story about their memories of the past? Where were you born? What if you didn't leave there, what was it like? Why did you leave there, if you left? What, Where did you move to when you came out of that other place? When, when were you born? And if they left? Why did they leave? How was it? Then when you were growing up? Did you go to school? Which school? Well, what were the teachers were the teachers like? Were there any  churches that you remember? Let them talk. And I can almost guarantee you that when you let them talk, because you are the student in that I'm not professionalizing, they are the teachers. In what you you're trying to learn, that you are the student, they are the teachers. You ask them only certain innocent questions and you don't challenge their answers. Because if you challenge their answers once challenging, then they become more careful in what they're going to say. And leave out their story. They then want to frame the story to please you. Because they like you. They're telling you the negatives and the positives of their lives. And what wouldn't say, like in my growing up, we were so confined on the Southside, we had a joke that we thought if we thought 47th Street was the center of the universe. That was humorous. And we thought that if you went south of 69th Street or north of Zermatt Road, you're gonna fall off the planet. [The crowd laughs.] That was our humorous way of describing the confinement. But it was actually a fact. Before recess, Lorraine Hansberry's father, Lorraine Hansberry took a case to the Supreme Court. And it also helps you understand in that particular case that the Supreme Court had great influence, had a good grip on by other conservative and so he had one of his white friends, buy a piece of property, restrictive covenants, an agreement between landlord and land owners that they would not rent or sell to Negroes. It was not a law, but as an agreement, but it had to be challenged. And Mr. Hansberry who was an educated, well, wealthy man, and that's another story. Took this case to the Supreme Court. Now he lived beautifully. Well, I know because I was their grocery boy. You use to have groceries, deliveries, so I knew the family. And he took the case to the Supreme Court which broke restrictive covenants in Chicago. Now, that was when my family left, the Albright going and moved in the North West Woodlawn north of 63rd, west of Cottage Grove to the so that case went to the first The Robert Hutchins who was the president of the University of Chicago, was a liberal, white, supported restrictive covenants in an intellectual way, because he said, Heaven, that uncontrolled error, the housing will hurt the University in a fair way. Now he was a liberal. But like my grandma said, when my mother brought her here from the south, she had been a former slave. And one day my sister asked her, \"Grandma, what was slavery like?\" And she started crying right away. And then I didn't have to have no documentation to know that they treated my grandma bad, slavery was bad. One day, I came home from kindergarten. Grandma loved her grandbaby. She says, grandma said I was playing with matches or something like that, I guess, Grandma says boy, and in the style of the south, of the Black south, boy, what's doing? And I tried to explain to grandma that I wouldn't do anything wrong. Grandma said, Boy, I can't hear what you're saying or what you're doing talk so loud. Actions speak louder than words. And so, Robert Hudson's, the liberals support it. Now, the case went to the court. The judge who said restrictive covenants were an important word we're not changing was from the University of Chicago happened to be a Jewish law, Judge from the liberal universe, Chicago Law School said nothing, but Mr. Hansberry is racist and I've been violated. The judge that says justice who rule who read the majority decision. After the Supreme Court, Mr. Hansberry had the out of the first case that had gone to Supreme Court since 1892 or three. That concern that's another case to be looked at. It went to a Supreme Court and the Justice who read the Supreme Court was just a good formula been a Ku Klux Klan from the state of Alabama, whose name was Hugo Black. He read the majority decision. Now before that he had read that, before he had made that he was he was selected and approved by by the President of United States. And, and I said to my dad, daddy you know later. Klansmen to sprinkle my daddy said, he'll be alright.  My daddy was a Black nationalist. I said I might be something wrong my daddy got to be crazy? Hugo Black read the majority decision, said Mr. Hansberry rights had been violated. A Ku Klux Klansmen from the south X Klu Klux Klansman, against a liberal in the north, that's hard to do. But one has to sometime take that they can't hear what you're saying or what you're doing tell the truth. I thought my daddy was crazy. Somehow but in that system of, of not slavery, but there had been a connection, my father was a man. The friendly connection and that was true of many other Blacks who and and whites who had been opposed to restrict the the laws that existed, but hedge abide bound to get to where they were so they could challenge them. So the lesons which were learned by my generation from their families, asking the question, listening. Enrich our understanding of race and inspired and inspired us to move forward and take advantage of the promise which was made, \"We hold these truths to be self evident.\", we translate it to be all human beings are created equal, along with our friend, a Caucasian and Asian, another friend. So, one of the things that using public housing is a history that you want to know more about, is to not get your own mind made up about what it all was like. Because what you want, I hope, what you would want you, the person that's you're listening to, is to tell the story the way they remember it, and how they lived it. And that will help your intention of how you plan to use the library as a teaching tool for others. I hope it would be a positive way in which you would use it even though you may have negative pause to show how somehow this can be a positive part of a community it can be housing, or low income. I can be mixed income as Ida B. Wells and Jane Addams eventually, later, do you later when other places have this book, and teaching the community that this is one way to stabilize the community. Because if public housing has, is opportunity, to gives an opportunity to be able to afford quality, better education, as Ida B. Wells and Jane Addams did for the residents, then it's it enriches the community. And gives the kind of opportunity to the less fortunate so that they can move into the more fortunate. Now again, I use my knowledge and experience because I had relatives who lived in public housing. And they evolved in the same way that I and my children did. Because that was a temporary for them, a temporary part. But when the concentration of poverty and loss of jobs came, then it's caused a other problems that you might be able to understand and, and, and use the library as showing the problems, but also showing the solutions. Maybe I'm talking too much and too long. I'm sorry.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=326.0,2356.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Audience Member: Yes, that's a question about the relationship. And","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=2356.0,2360.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Black: I'm not here to well, so someone help me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=2360.0,2362.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"?: I'll help you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=2362.0,2363.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Audience Member: I have a question about the relationship between the interviewer and the speaker. Think in some academic disciplines, there's an interest in objectivity, in distance. And I think oral history is one that sort of emphasizes the kind of relation or relationship between between two people. And I guess I'm interested in hearing more about your particular experience as someone who, as you said, interviewed people that you knew or you had a relationship to what were some of the kind of complexities of interviewing people that you knew? What where the challenges? What and maybe what did you gain that other that other interviewer wouldn't, wouldn't be able to get? Because I think that some folks will be public housing residents or former public housing, residents, interviewing public housing, residents, and other people will be served outside of that community. I never grew up in public housing and work in a public housing Museum is the question that I think about every day when you wake up in the morning, and I just want to hear your thoughts.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=2363.0,2427.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Black:  Well I'll try and answer your question. Again, remember, they're the teachers. You're the student. So you only you had to get from, you get from them, they're not just their memories, but their feelings about their stories. And by listening and asking certain questions, you give them an opportunity to try to convince you of their accuracy in that history. And it's better my experience, to not be critical of what they're saying. But to listen and ask the questions, how did you get to be where you are? Then they will give you the story. As I listened to young people today, who are gang members, who were gang members, and they tell me how, why, as they remember, they were members of a street gang. And part of it always is so that they wouldn't get hurt, protect their own self, their own lives. And to help usually mama, to have some money to pay the bills. Now, these are not damaged. They just didn't get the education. And now they have been deprived of it. Because the teacher doesn't know that background of this young man or young woman who whatever the reason, good reason, bad reason come from usually single parent household where the income is very limited. But the parent who was there want their children to do better. And if they have the opportunity, they will do better. Because they have the opportunity. But if they don't have the opportunity, then they don't believe the pup pessimism of life enters into their feelings. And they don't believe they're going to be living very long. So therefore, all they care seem to care about is living today. And who do they live on? Is the person they see down the street. Who is as poverty stricken as they are, across the street. The drug dealers can then the drug promoters can then come into that person's life and say here, you sell this. Here's a gun. It's to protect yourself. You sell this and you'll have something. I mean that's kind of putting it in a larger frame. And he or she is becoming as much she as it was he feel an obligation to mama or daddy whoever's there left after the grandma to carry out that mission of passing on something to others but also having enough for his own. And so the life of today is all, is immediate, but the belief about tomorrow is hardly in their thought because they don't see it. In this concentration of poverty and lack of opportunity, they don't see that fusion as poor dumb Tim Black did, when I could look down the street and see Dr. Dawson and Dr. Dove and all that. And my mama could say, see, you can do that. I had examples of the possible and believed, because grandma had told us about slavery. I believe the possible, the impossible, was possible. And so my brother and sister now all believing that we then had the faith. And this is true in public housing, and I know from former students as well. In spite of the obstacles, in spite of the negative that you see, there's a positive also in the life, wherever I am. That will give me let me get prepared. The door is gonna open. I believe that I have believing faith, that the door, I don't care about all this God damn crap that I see around me. Because I've seen what can happen. And the impossible becomes possible. Does that? Does that answer your question? A little bit?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=2427.0,2815.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Audience Member: Thank you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=2815.0,2816.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Black: Does that helped answer I can hear too. So","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=2816.0,2819.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Audience Member: yeah, just helps answer the question. Thank you,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=2819.0,2821.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Black: But stimulate your your thoughts about the don't claim that I can answer all that good. But","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=2821.0,2831.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Audience Member: I think it's a complex question. And I think there are lots of different answers.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=2831.0,2836.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Black: Yeah, yeah, but you're using the Museum, not just as a, I think, I hope you're using a museum, not just an explanation of a place where people live. But as a teaching. This museum will be a teaching for not just those who went through the experience of living in public housing, but those who didn't, and get a chance to review. You see, I didn't wear the jacket. But the Museum of the National Museum of African American History and Culture, where I was a guest that Lonnie Bunch for the opening session tells the story in very, very clear, observable terms of Black life in America. It deals with the negative, but emphasizes the positive and cannot be contradicted because it is there to look at and think about. So. I have my mission. And I guess I'm being selfish and personal about it is to encourage all people, whatever race, gender, whatever, that is going to be a better world. Because you had to be prepared. Now we can take the President's library and use that also. I happen to have been asked to be on what he called it, advisory board, when for that, and they had such confidence and I'm doing that Barak and Michelle, they go by Mr. Black house see all that junk that you may see some. About us and they did come back. I'm sure that they go to everybody's house. And after they came by, the decision was then made to bring it to the Southside of Chicago, although the Westside wanted it also and other places. But I also deal with the issue of bringing change because Koco Kenwood Oakland Community Organization say we have to have a trauma center here too. Or you're not gonna have the library. So KOCO asked me to be supportive. Also another symbol with the captain died, who was a fantastic stimulator of jazz, not jazz music but good music, Nat King Cole and all those guys, that when I was supporting both, I had to tell them, Be quiet I had to tell the University of Chicago, you better do it, or you're not gonna have a library. So we were able to  get the library. But the library, as Barak has said, is for him a teaching tool. To give a picture of starting from the bottom and rising to the top. And he is a dramatic example of doing that. And Hillary could have been but your current president, use his tools to keep up a man can we live in the world as it was, as he said, America as it used to be used to be for me, carry slavery, shareholder. So I don't want America to be as it used to be. I want America to be as it ought to be. And therefore, using the oral history of those who have lived in that area of that era, an area of despair, and hopelessness, and yet retain that. And public housing exemplifies in many lives, that positive possibility, that affordable housing, housing that deals with people who are less able to afford other is varied.  And we have examples of that I get my former students named Cabrini Green who lived in Cabrini Green, and went on be a state senator, and other successful, outstanding people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=2836.0,3154.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Audience Member #2:  Jesse White Jr?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=3154.0,3160.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Black: Um, so,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=3160.0,3161.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Audience Member #2:  Jesse White Jr. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=3161.0,3163.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Black: Jesse White, Jr. and I'm thinking about Ken Duncan.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=3163.0,3168.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Audience Member #2: Kim Duncan","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=3168.0,3168.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Black:  And then, what's the name? What's the name of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=3168.0,3173.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Audience Member #3:  Kim Fox?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=3173.0,3174.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Black: Kim Fox, and then state senate state senator. We can do it economically and politically. We can hear no, the point is, the point I'm trying to make is that oral history will give memories even by asking those as you're the learner and asking the question of those people who saw this and lived it in their own lives, and transfer that oral story so that other people who may not have as much personal knowledge or experience to understand that the impossible is always possible and give younger people particularly that we did we overcame the impossible, the impossible. We did that. And here are examples of having done that. Public housing it gives that kind of base of thinking. And people who've lived in public housing, if the person who is asking them about their lives, listens, he or she will get the positive of their experience as well as the negative but can transfer that to the library, ah the Museum so that the visitor to museum will understand the evolution of life as it existed. And these, for me is for the demand to create public housing with more control, but availability to those who are less fortunate about income. That my personal desire for helping you to think about oral history as a tool to bring about larger public appreciation of where heaven, but letting that public know that success must be helped by other factors called safety, education, job opportunities, all of those things that are needed to help residents see that future. Because unless they're in a neighborhood, where, like I grew up, they can't see that future. They can hardly ever see today. And as I've been in groups, and ask young people who had been inspired by I'm trying to think of his name, who was at University of Chicago and had young people as part of his program. And ask how many of you here know, someone who had been shot? See, someone who had that doesn't mean you have to get shot. But you know, someone and you feel that their loss in your personal life? Why did that happen? You can that person can tell you a story about why it happened. Prevent that the criminal aspect can be eliminated. As it was controlled. I was talking with, I forget his name, formerly he was superintendent, when he was a very high level police officer, and then he went to the University came over to the University of Chicago is there also security and secured that neighborhood around the University. Having to me, so, security, opportunity, and all those things that I was fortunate to have, though I was poor. I could say again, we will not poverty stricken. We live in the age of depression. But we were not depressed. That story can come from residents, that kind of story. But they have to be encouraged by the listener to tell that story in their own way. And the listener may be able to contradict it. But should not do that as they listen to the story. You do that after you've heard the story. Because the person who is telling the story wants to give it from his or her memory and has to be stimulated. Like grandma being asked what was slavery like? She began to talk and once you have that person has the freedom to tell their story. [Chuckle] You may have to stop them. Because for them it is therapeutic. They have carried that inside and have no one that they could tell it to they didn't know it already. And and part of their mission, this is without them knowing that's their mission is to give information to the listener that will help the listen to understand why they're pleased to have someone asked him about it. So they can tell him about it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=3174.0,3614.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Alfaro: So I think we have time for one more question. There's a question in the back. Hello, oh,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=3614.0,3624.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Audience Member #4: Thank you so much for being here. My name is [Ivan practice] and I'm a summer intern with the National Public Housing Museum in Collections. And I know that part of our archive is missing stories about the Ida B. Wells Homes. For some reason, it doesn't seem like we have as much about that, and yet hear about it often. And we actually for oral history summer school, we read your interview with Dillard Harris, from the second generation was mentioned this time in the Ida B. Wells Homes, but I was wondering if you could just share anything that that conjures up for you. Anything that you wanted to say about it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=3624.0,3669.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Black: Again, I can't hear too well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=3669.0,3671.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Schneider: So Ina was asking, she was saying, as an intern, working on the archives here, there's been a gap. They're not finding a lot of interviews or information about the Ida B. Wells Homes. And we read the Dillard Harris interview from your book, and you were asking if Mr. Black could talk about  What he remembers about the Ida B. Wells Homes. If you could talk about what you remember about the Ida B. Wells Homes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=3671.0,3703.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Black: What Ida B. Wells, as well as Jane Addams came into being during the Great Depression. And it was one of the factors, by the way, stimulated by the President's wife, Eleanor Roosevelt, of trying to reduce the potential of rats and by, by providing housing for those who were less who were without housing. Because many people in that period, were being ousted from the homes where they live, because they couldn't pay the rent. And this was to give low income. And so Ida B. Wells was one of those. Now, Ida B. Wells was built as permanent housing but temporary for people who were primarily younger people with families and had low incomes at that time. But be used past that generation for others who might be similar. Ida B. Wells and the Ikies and all those houses built at the same time, but immediately to stop the radicals from recruiting these less privileged people Ida B. Wells was just one. So they had recreation and all at that time, and they interplay with others neighborhoods close by and went to the same schools that when the Phillips was a high school nearby, they all went. And that generation in that generation, they went on to college and other just like their less more important neighbors. And so Ida B. Wells, was a, well if you lived in Ida B. Wells you went to school was with people who lived in the past that home that's being restored on Michigan. The Oh, need helped to save that building too. And so the kids interacted. Now, after World War Two and I say this because it's important to understand that those of my generation and including my cousins who lived in Ida B. Wells begin to move out into other neighborhoods. And the businesses begin to go away because the population round in Ida B. Wells had less income. And in Ida B. Wells, there will begin to be a division of the people. And my relatives who had lived in Ida B. Wells, will raise their children or their, their children went to Catholic school, because most of them went to Catholic school, because the public schools were overcrowded. And they moved out. And the new population that moved in, did not have the same benefit. So of relationships, and that began to develop a division and a hostility between the children of the first grade people who came in, and the children who were coming in later, and the children who come, they began to move out, even if they had to live with relatives, who in other housing, so that was a that class division. And that's important to understand young people. Class, the division can be as negative as race or religion or gender, class division between people of color. My generation become soft and not that also existed between Southside and Westside, but by the way, in one of my books, I think. One neighbor, when I'm talking with this woman whose daughter was very prominent, is a very prominent person. And she's talking about she came up North Carolina, same time my parents came. So we told them about Southside the Southside. So we get to the end, and she's standing over mom, because she knows she gonna say something wrong. And she said, this is an oral history. And then I said, Well, now you've been talking about the Westside, I mean, the Centerside all this time. What about the Westside? Westside, Westside, I ain't got nothing to do with the Westside? Oh, mama! That was a division that we had about our brothers and sisters, who now have moved to the Westside. That was true among Jews, among Polish, among Irish, class division. And in Ida B. Wells, that class division became for many a division that had carried with it a balance of behavior. And those who could move, moved on. The earlier residents hung out with everyone else in the neighborhood. The newer residents became, unfortunately, not as able and then the violence comes into the community in Ida B. Wells and it becomes the easier then to begin to think about temporary housing. And then high rises come and Ida B. Wells eventually becomes a victim of the high rise. Ida B. Wells as well as Jane Addams on the Westside and Cabrini Green in other part on the Northside. So, one, looking at that history, it would be good if you could share and could find someone who relatives lived in Ida B. Wells in the earlier days and then someone who lived in Ida B. Wells later in that period that I'm describing, where the division along class lines it's not just race or religion of its class, poor Jews on the westside, Middle class, wealthy Jews on the Southside. And that division is ra class, but not as easy to distinguish as race, because race is a part of American culture and becomes more obvious when we find it concentrated along class lines. Race is American, part of America, and those who, originally my racial ancestors, and all of you generally have African background, our ancestors did not volunteer to come here. They were drug here. And they had confidence as my parents about the future of their children and grandchildren. But most of them said to themselves using the old spiritual before I be your slave, I'll be buried in my grave, more died, than they brought. My ancestors, those of a color, ancestors said, I'm so glad the trouble don't list always. And that spirituality carried us beyond where we were, to where we wanted to go. Now, if that is not available, the division becomes easier to manipulate that becomes political. Because in that second wave that went into Ida B. Wells and Robert Taylor and all those other the politicians use that division for their benefit. Black politicians, as well as white politicians used that division. And in some ways, we find that in the attitude, and I worked in the public housing for Harold Washington. And, but, and many of the younger people who say, Mr. Black, in those public housing, what what differences it make? It don't make any difference. I had to help them to understand or believe that it did make a difference. Somebody's going to be your mayor, somebody's going to be your governor. Somebody's going to be your president and make decisions about your life. Now, if you have a concentration of that kind of feeling of it makes no difference. Then, what difference does it make about others around me, since I'm not gonna be here long, you know. That concentration, which existed in the later days of Ida B. Wells, not completely did not exist. And they is the Ida B. Wells, children. Thought about children Rosenwald. Did you ever heard of Rosenwald building? It's been restored, it's been saved. I have to save that to. That's the reason I'm not rich. Because I can't be bought. And therefore I can act as independent. But as momma and dadda said, mama said daddy said to momma, Mattie, \"Pay rent. Buy plenty food. And then he laughed and said, get plenty toilet paper. I've always had paid the rent, been a so I can be as independent as I want to be. But if you can be bought, then the system will buy you away from the mission of helping others. And you owe them rather than. I have an obligation to all you young people to share in my oral way, the history that I have experienced. Now you can challenge it, do whatever you want to do it. But I was there. When I talk about it, I was there. And so when you do your oral histories with whoever you do it, do as you've done with me so graciously. Listen. You will learn, you will be able to capture those stories and put them into the archives that will become a part of the, the museum and will be able to be shared by people from all over the world who want to know something about what they hear rumored about. But will learn the facts about from the oral histories that you will be able to gather and let them know about. They are teaching you whether it's bad or good. You're asking the questions because you want to know their history, let them tell their history. And they will tell it because they have contained it inside and they're just happy to have someone give them that therapeutic opportunity to talk about the life that they've live, positive or negative. And that will help this museum to be a glorious place to learn about the history, not just a race. But otherwise, because the conditions that I just talked about in terms of my knowledge and experience in public history, and public housing is just one. Mine is older. I was living when the when the when both the Ida B. Wells and the fancy housing and I talked about and keep forgetting about were built. Now they Oscar Brown Jr that you may have heard about his daughter continues to carry the legacy of her father. He, they were rich. They lived and managed Ida B. Wells and that they helped young people to understand, they moved people like the Browns out of that kind of housing, because they didn't want, this was a political. see one of the things as you talk with whoever you will be talking, you have to understand that all life is political. When two human beings get together, politics begin. It can be cooperative and, and in partnership, or it can be dominated by one of those. When we move to another level, why would they have this concentration of unfortunate, intelligent people who, however, see no hardly any examples of of the puzzle. It's because they have been deprived and they have been used for their purpose. Not for the purpose of that person. And the story that I hope at the Museum will help see, is the evolution of that housing and helping people who are less fortunate to become more successful. The negative is there. But the positive that's my selfishness is a story that I want the Museum to personify. Sorry talk so long, young people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=3703.0,4768.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Alfaro:  Thank you so much. We have some folks that have to be who we do want to, you have a book coming out. So can we announce","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=4768.0,4774.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Black:  Oh, bridges that book?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=4774.0,4776.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Alfaro: No, this right here","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=4776.0,4777.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Schneider:  Sacred Ground, Sacred Ground, your memoir, your memoir?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=4777.0,4780.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Black: Oh yeah. Well, Bridges of Memory is a story of three generations of the First Great Migration, it's oral history. I am finishing a personal biography, called Sacred Ground. And Sacred Ground is the story of Tim Black, growing up on Southside of Chicago.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=4780.0,4804.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Alfaro: Thank you so much! [Applause.] Mr. Black, thank you so much for taking the time to meet with us. I selfishly would like if you could sign a book for the Museum.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=4804.0,4832.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Schneider:  And I wanted to know before we disband oral history summer school we're taking a group photo and I wanted to know, Mr. Black, whether you'd be willing to be in our group photo.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=4832.0,4841.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Black: Oh, I'd be honored. They may have copies so I can grab.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=4841.0,4847.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Schneider:   Photo. Would you mind signing it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=4847.0,4848.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Black:  Oh,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=4848.0,4849.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Alfaro: It's for the museum.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=4849.0,4851.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Black: Oh.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=4851.0,4854.0"},{"id":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946/transcript/66126/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"[din of the audience at the close of the event.]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://nphm.aviaryplatform.com/collections/2733/collection_resources/127010/file/238946#t=4854.0,4859.837"}]}]}]}